Vahn's quest for glory and saw palmetto destruction!!

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Originally Posted by Cherry

Have you tried Prohormones yet?

For me, nothing really improved my baseline but prohormones.

Cycled in combination with the rest of the protocol you can shift some serious chemistry in your body. If you haven't tried it, I'd highly recommend it.

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I haven’t. I cycled the herbs because of their alleged “hollistic” action, which made more sense to me, as PFS is a systemic syndrome with unclear mechanism.

Prohormones sounded more like a “boost your T” type of solution, but I do not have low T. I might be wrong about this. I don’t know much about prohormones. Not trying to make blanket statements.

Nevertheless, the protocol should have been enough to induce some change. I’m not confident a prohormone would change that.

That’s how I feel about it, anyway.

Don't give up so easily mate. How do you know the prohormones won't work unless you at least try? The thing about the protocol is that people react differently so that you hear of some people feeling nothing of the herbs and then excelling when the prohormones started and then you hear recovery stories where the person didn't even use the prohormones as they responded so well to the herbs and dieting. You just need to try.

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Originally Posted by Thetfordboy

Don't give up so easily mate. How do you know the prohormones won't work unless you at least try? The thing about the protocol is that people react differently so that you hear of some people feeling nothing of the herbs and then excelling when the prohormones started and then you hear recovery stories where the person didn't even use the prohormones as they responded so well to the herbs and dieting. You just need to try.

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I don't agree with the adverb "easily". I've been doing this for a long time and have been suffering for even longer.

I'll be honest: throwing prohomones at it just sounds like a wild stab in the dark. I have no idea what I'd actually be fixing with it, since PFS is not just low T. I am very cautious of making it even worse.

Well there's no stories of it being made worse by the prohormones. Look I get it,its shit and a nightmare. But you need to step back sometimes,try the hormones. If you aren't improving then what is there to lose?
You can't say you followed the protocol relentlessly and it didn't work then say later you left out a major part of it. Man take a deep breath and try again.

Yea honestly I’d just give the prohormones a shot and see how you feel. Since you’re a saw palmetto user I’d probably go with ultra hard stacked with alpha four seeing as you probably have low estrogen unlike fin guys who have high e2

Whenever I felt like I wasn’t making any progress, a cycle would kickstart me into another ”level” so to speak

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Originally Posted by Thetfordboy

Well there's no stories of it being made worse by the prohormones. Look I get it,its shit and a nightmare. But you need to step back sometimes,try the hormones. If you aren't improving then what is there to lose?
You can't say you followed the protocol relentlessly and it didn't work then say later you left out a major part of it. Man take a deep breath and try again.

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The prohormones are NOT part of the protocol. So yes, I can say I followed it.

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Originally Posted by xxaleksi

Yea honestly I’d just give the prohormones a shot and see how you feel. Since you’re a saw palmetto user I’d probably go with ultra hard stacked with alpha four seeing as you probably have low estrogen unlike fin guys who have high e2

Whenever I felt like I wasn’t making any progress, a cycle would kickstart me into another ”level” so to speak

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My E2 was normal, not low. My T was maybe a bit lowish, but last time I checked it was normal (550ng). That's why I'm reluctant. PFS is not really about balancing specific hormones, so why do I need to target them specifically? Not trying to be a dick, I'm just trying to be rational about this.

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Originally Posted by Vahn

My E2 was normal, not low. My T was maybe a bit lowish, but last time I checked it was normal (550ng). That's why I'm reluctant. PFS is not really about balancing specific hormones, so why do I need to target them specifically? Not trying to be a dick, I'm just trying to be rational about this.

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The reason prohormones, especially the DHT based ones speed up the process is because they help regenerate 5ar, which because of it's inhibition (due to propecia/saw palmetto) is the cause of most all PFS issues. Not to mention they flood the already starved body and brain with DHT, which 5ar inhibitors destroy production of, among other things.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

The reason prohormones, especially the DHT based ones speed up the process is because they help regenerate 5ar, which because of it's inhibition (due to propecia/saw palmetto) is the cause of most all PFS issues. Not to mention they flood the already starved body and brain with DHT, which 5ar inhibitors destroy production of, among other things.

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Yup exactly. When I first crashed I fell into the rabbit hole of all the theories on what PFS is, how it’s just gut related, electrolytes, potassium, all that crap lol. But as I got more experience with my own symptoms and recovery I realized how pretty much all of it can be explained by 5ar1 and 5ar2 inhibition and the downstream effects, even the most severe neurological sides I had.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

The reason prohormones, especially the DHT based ones speed up the process is because they help regenerate 5ar, which because of it's inhibition (due to propecia/saw palmetto) is the cause of most all PFS issues. Not to mention they flood the already starved body and brain with DHT, which 5ar inhibitors destroy production of, among other things.

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I mean, shouldn’t the protocol for a year have helped with that already? I’ve had my upswings, but my genitals are after all this time still, well, destroyed, you could say. I’m at a loss.