My Methylated vitamin crash in 2020: How I fixed it

First off, this isn’t a PFS post. I’m just explaining an experience of mine. If you’ve never had a bad reaction from methylated vitamins that caused you lasting distress, this doesn’t apply to you at all. I would have gotten this reaction with or without PFS, they aren’t related. This won’t cure your PFS and is not intended in any way to distract you from the protocol via TMO, which is the whole point of this place.


I get a lot of guys reaching out to me over my methylfolate (B9) reaction last year. I also have noticed that there is a ton of posts on propeciahelp from guys who got far worse from methylated vitamins. I want to make this post as a resource for people in the future, because this would have been extremely beneficial for me last year. If you search through my threads, I had a particularly bad crash with methylfolate that sent me to the hospital. It was agonizing, and it lasted upwards of 6 months. I ended up figuring out what happened upon doing a ton of research, and fixed the issue overnight once I pinpointed it. I’m going to go over my experience, and what I did to fix it. I’m NOT saying you should go ahead and do any of this, I’m just sharing my experience and everything I did.

I began taking b vitamins, and learned about methylated vitamins, and thought I’d give it a go. Without doing any research, or learning about my genetics I took methylfolate. Day 1 was fantastic. My anhedonia lifted, I felt great, brain fog improved, and I was going to keep taking it. Around day 2 or 3 is where shit went bad.

I began feeling more weird than usual. And then after I ate my normal lunch of chicken and vegetables, I got the most intense, agonizing panic attack of my life, and it literally felt like I was crawling out of skin. Or like I was set on fire. This was made a million times worse after eating ANYTHING with folate in it. Broccoli, asparagus, spinach, even blueberries, all made me way way worse. There’s a reason for that.

My PFS symptoms intensified by 5x overnight. I had intense derealization to the point of not recognizing my family and friends, dementia type brain fog, severe anxiety, anhedonia, my dick literally was dead, racing heart, insomnia, exercise intolerance, food intolerances with severe anxiety, my vision went haywire and looked distorted, I had a yellow tint in my vision/dim vision, and a few more. It was a nightmare. The first night I also was sprinting down the street because my anxiety was so intense that I felt I needed to run. I had a severe flu for a few weeks, and a white coated tongue/dry mouth. Upon research, I found similar experiences on propeciahelp, Reddit, and Phoenix rising. Tons of warnings against methylated vitamins and crazy, lasting experiences. I even saw a user from propeciahelp, named Douglasmich, on Phoenix Rising asking for guidance as he’d fallen into a methyltrap, and was stuck. That user, to my understanding, ended up committing suicide. I’m not sure if methyltrap or methylfolate had anything to do with that, but I’ll admit I was suicidal during my methylfolate crash. That’s why I want to create this post, it’s very fixable. I wish he could have saw this, because I think his issue was paradoxical folate deficiency, due to the intense folate from food intolerances.

I started reading Phoenix Rising, and a user named Freddd cured his CFS using methylb12. I read everything he had to say. This eventually taught me about methyltrap, and paradoxical folate deficiency, which was my issue.

Methyltrap- not enough Methylb12 was taken in conjunction with methylfolate, causing the folate to become trapped. Meaning you need more Mb12. Methylb12 acts as a vehicle to Methylfolate, and helps deliver it to where it needs to go.

Paradoxical folate deficiency- too small amount of folate taken to continue healing, causing depletion of folate and a deficiency on a cellular level. In my case, being MTHFR 677ct, I was already deficient in folate since my body doesn’t convert it well, so once I took methylfolate (without B12), it kickstarted healing too quickly, and depleted all of my folate stores. Taking small amounts of folate will make this more severe, which is why eating broccoli would trigger severity of symptoms for me.

I’ll link a few different threads where you can read what Freddd had to say and he goes into depth about it for yourself, and I’ll just explain how I fixed it for myself.

In my understanding, the process of methylation depletes stores of vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients. Which is why you need to stock up on them beforehand. I took Nature Made B complex with C (contains no folate or B12), along with calcium, magnesium, Vit A, E, fish oil for about a week to replenish my stores of these. Then I bought country life MethylB12 (Freddd recommendation) along with Solger Metafolin 1000 mcg. I was going to test methyltrap first, then paradoxical folate deficiency next.

Let me make this clear, I was absolutely MORTIFIED to try this. The thought of taking another methylated vitamin scared the hell out of me, but my condition was so bad that I was desperate.

First, I took my b complex, 1000 mcg of metafolin, then waited about 10 min and put the Mb12 under my top lip to absorb. No difference. I did this for a few days, but it made me a little worse. Although the mb12 helped a bit I felt. If methyl trap is your issue, you’ll start to feel relief from the b12, 1000 mcg a day is enough to fix methyltrap.

My only option left was to try Freddd’s recommendation for paradoxical folate deficiency, so that’s what I did. Folate is weird where as the more you take, the less bad you feel. There’s a reason that Deplin, a medication for depression, is literally 7500 MCG of methylfolate. They added enough to get past the start up effects you’d feel with less folate. I needed to gradually titrate up until the side effects stopped. This is due to deficiency rapidly occurring, until I got enough of it to stop it. I didn’t believe this, I thought there was no way that could possibly be true, and I thought he was crazy.

That day, I took the B complex, then I started with 5 Metafolins, then waited a while and put the Mb12 under my lip. I felt my anxiety start to intensify a bit, so I took 5 more metafolin. I did this for a while, taking 5 more at a time, until I had taken about 25 capsules of metafolin. I think I took like 30 total, and as soon as I took the final 5, I had IMMEDIATE relief. No more anxiety, derealization, all gone. I then took a little more B12 and about an hour later took some Niacin to demethyate myself. Niacin soaks up your methyl groups, so it’s required to take that afterwards.

From then on I had no more of those issues. I have done this a handful of times while experimenting with Methylated vitamins. I’ve taken up to 120,000 MCG (120 pills, an entire bottle) in a day of Methylfolate. Don’t try that, I don’t recommend it, but I am just stating it to show that it won’t harm you by taking higher amounts. If you’re stuck in a methylation experience from hell, this is some info that might be of help to you.

Now I can take methylated vitamins as needed, although I don’t usually. My recommendation would be to maybe avoid them in general, I don’t think they’re necessary to recover.

Notes: DON’T forget to supplement with potassium while taking methylated vitamins. Methyl vitamins deplete potassium, you’ll want “No Salt” or just potassium chloride, take it as needed and don’t overdo it. This is HUGE. Don’t take it too close to methylfolate because it disrupts absorption.

TL;DR: methyltrap: you need more B12 to release pent up folate that got stuck in your cells. Paradoxical folate deficiency: you need more folate, take folate until symptoms stop along with B12 to help transport the folate where it needs to go. Take b complex with C, along with other vitamins before hand, always take methylb12 and methylfolate together, never one without the other. Take potassium during and after. Finish with Niacin to demethylate.

Link- How to untrap a methyl trap | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums

Recognizing Paradoxical Folate Deficiency in Papers | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums

methyl trap please help | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums


Note: I’m not a medical professional, this isn’t advice, this post is only sharing my experience with a methylated B vitamin crash, and the steps I took to fix it.

Note: this will not cure your PFS. It was an entirely different condition, ON TOP of my PFS. Once I fixed this, I returned to my normal PFS, which I am fixing with the protocol via TMO.

I’m going to leave this here for future reference and to hopefully be of help to someone in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Turnover25

I get a lot of guys reaching out to me over my methylfolate (B9) crash last year. I also have noticed that there is a ton of posts on propeciahelp from guys who got far worse from methylated vitamins. I want to make this post as a resource for people in the future, because this would have been extremely beneficial for me last year. If you search through my threads, I had a particularly bad crash with methylfolate that sent me to the hospital. It was agonizing, and it lasted upwards of 6 months. I ended up figuring out what happened upon doing a ton of research, and fixed the issue overnight once I pinpointed it. I’m going to go over my experience, and what I did to fix it. I’m NOT saying you should go ahead and do any of this, I’m just sharing my experience and everything I did.

I began taking b vitamins, and learned about methylated vitamins, and thought I’d give it a go. Without doing any research, or learning about my genetics I took methylfolate. Day 1 was fantastic. My anhedonia lifted, I felt great, brain fog improved, and I was going to keep taking it. Around day 2 or 3 is where shit went bad.

I began feeling more weird than usual. And then after I ate my normal lunch of chicken and vegetables, I got the most intense, agonizing panic attack of my life, and it literally felt like I was crawling out of skin. Or like I was set on fire. This was made a million times worse after eating ANYTHING with folate in it. Broccoli, asparagus, spinach, even blueberries, all made me way way worse. There’s a reason for that.

My PFS symptoms intensified by 5x overnight. I had intense derealization to the point of not recognizing my family and friends, dementia type brain fog, severe anxiety, anhedonia, my dick literally was dead, racing heart, insomnia, exercise intolerance, food intolerances with severe anxiety, my vision went haywire and looked distorted, I had a yellow tint in my vision/dim vision, and a few more. It was a nightmare. The first night I also was sprinting down the street because my anxiety was so intense that I felt I needed to run. I had a severe flu for a few weeks, and a white coated tongue/dry mouth. Upon research, I found similar experiences on propeciahelp, Reddit, and Phoenix rising. Tons of warnings against methylated vitamins and crazy, lasting experiences. I even saw a user from propeciahelp, named Douglasmich, on Phoenix Rising asking for guidance as he’d fallen into a methyltrap, and was stuck. That user, to my understanding, ended up committing suicide. I’m not sure if methyltrap or methylfolate had anything to do with that, but I’ll admit I was suicidal during my methylfolate crash. That’s why I want to create this post, it’s very fixable. I wish he could have saw this, because I think his issue was paradoxical folate deficiency, due to the intense folate from food intolerances.

I started reading Phoenix Rising, and a user named Freddd cured his CFS using methylb12. I read everything he had to say. This eventually taught me about methyltrap, and paradoxical folate deficiency, which was my issue.

Methyltrap- not enough Methylb12 was taken in conjunction with methylfolate, causing the folate to become trapped. Meaning you need more Mb12. Methylb12 acts as a vehicle to Methylfolate, and helps deliver it to where it needs to go.

Paradoxical folate deficiency- too small amount of folate taken to continue healing, causing depletion of folate and a deficiency on a cellular level. In my case, being MTHFR 677ct, I was already deficient in folate since my body doesn’t convert it well, so once I took methylfolate (without B12), it kickstarted healing too quickly, and depleted all of my folate stores. Taking small amounts of folate will make this more severe, which is why eating broccoli would trigger severity of symptoms for me.

I’ll link a few different threads where you can read what Freddd had to say and he goes into depth about it for yourself, and I’ll just explain how I fixed it for myself.

In my understanding, the process of methylation depletes stores of vitamins, minerals, and other nutrients. Which is why you need to stock up on them beforehand. I took Nature Made B complex with C (contains no folate or B12), along with calcium, magnesium, Vit A, E, fish oil for about a week to replenish my stores of these. Then I bought country life MethylB12 (Freddd recommendation) along with Solger Metafolin 1000 mcg. I was going to test methyltrap first, then paradoxical folate deficiency next.

Let me make this clear, I was absolutely MORTIFIED to try this. The thought of taking another methylated vitamin scared the hell out of me, but my condition was so bad that I was desperate.

First, I took my b complex, 1000 mcg of metafolin, then waited about 10 min and put the Mb12 under my top lip to absorb. No difference. I did this for a few days, but it made me a little worse. Although the mb12 helped a bit I felt. If methyl trap is your issue, you’ll start to feel relief from the b12, 1000 mcg a day is enough to fix methyltrap.

My only option left was to try Freddd’s recommendation for paradoxical folate deficiency, so that’s what I did. Folate is weird where as the more you take, the less bad you feel. There’s a reason that Deplin, a medication for depression, is literally 7500 MCG of methylfolate. They added enough to get past the start up effects you’d feel with less folate. I needed to gradually titrate up until the side effects stopped. This is due to deficiency rapidly occurring, until I got enough of it to stop it. I didn’t believe this, I thought there was no way that could possibly be true, and I thought he was crazy.

That day, I took the B complex, then I started with 5 Metafolins, then waited a while and put the Mb12 under my lip. I felt my anxiety start to intensify a bit, so I took 5 more metafolin. I did this for a while, taking 5 more at a time, until I had taken about 25 capsules of metafolin. I think I took like 30 total, and as soon as I took the final 5, I had IMMEDIATE relief. No more anxiety, derealization, all gone. I then took a little more B12 and about an hour later took some Niacin to demethyate myself. Niacin soaks up your methyl groups, so it’s required to take that afterwards.

From then on I had no more of those issues. I have done this a handful of times while experimenting with Methylated vitamins. I’ve taken up to 120,000 MCG (120 pills, an entire bottle) in a day of Methylfolate. Don’t try that, I don’t recommend it, but I am just stating it to show that it won’t harm you by taking higher amounts. If you’re stuck in a methylation experience from hell, this is some info that might be of help to you.

Now I can take methylated vitamins as needed, although I don’t usually. My recommendation would be to maybe avoid them in general, I don’t think they’re necessary to recover.

Notes: DON’T forget to supplement with potassium while taking methylated vitamins. Methyl vitamins deplete potassium, you’ll want “No Salt” or just potassium chloride, take it as needed and don’t overdo it. This is HUGE. Don’t take it too close to methylfolate because it disrupts absorption.

TL;DR: methyltrap: you need more B12 to release pent up folate that got stuck in your cells. Paradoxical folate deficiency: you need more folate, take folate until symptoms stop along with B12 to help transport the folate where it needs to go. Take b complex with C, along with other vitamins before hand, always take methylb12 and methylfolate together, never one without the other. Take potassium during and after. Finish with Niacin to demethylate.

Link- How to untrap a methyl trap | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums

Recognizing Paradoxical Folate Deficiency in Papers | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums

methyl trap please help | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums


Note: I’m not a medical professional, this isn’t advice, this post is only sharing my experience with a methylated B vitamin crash, and the steps I took to fix it.

Note: this will not cure your PFS. It was an entirely different condition, ON TOP of my PFS. Once I fixed this, I returned to my normal PFS, which I am fixing with the protocol via TMO.

I’m going to leave this here for future reference and to hopefully be of help to someone in the future.

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Thank you for sharing.

Am I correct in assuming a b12 deficiency on your blood panel is the first hint of a possible methylfolate trap? My blood tests showed a very high amount of blood b12. Don’t want to make a fool of myself should I mention this to my GP and ask about a gene test.

Thanks for the write up. I must say the problem seemed way less severe when you mentioned it in your log.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojo

Am I correct in assuming a b12 deficiency on your blood panel is the first hint of a possible methylfolate trap? My blood tests showed a very high amount of blood b12. Don’t want to make a fool of myself should I mention this to my GP and ask about a gene test.

Thanks for the write up. I must say the problem seemed way less severe when you mentioned it in your log.

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No, you’re not going to fall into a methyltrap if you haven’t been messing with methylated vitamins, as far as I understand. I wouldn’t mention it if you have high levels of B12 in your blood. I believe Methyltrap is something they discovered on a CFS forum. I doubt the medical community would acknowledge it. Same as a lot of issues with PFS.

I don’t go into depth as far as my condition or symptoms on my thread because I don’t want to fear monger. I only made this post because I’ve seen this issue time after time all across different forums and thought I could help.

I understand. Sometimes that looking for a silver bullet mentality resurfaces when someone mentions a solution for insomnia and anxiety..

It’s hard to tell sometimes which vitamins are methylated and which aren’t. Took some ‘active b complex’ few months ago and had an anxiety spike for a few days afterwards. Could well have been just a normal bump in the road of recovering, but it did leave me with the ‘what if’

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mojo

I understand. Sometimes that looking for a silver bullet mentality resurfaces when someone mentions a solution for insomnia and anxiety..

It’s hard to tell sometimes which vitamins are methylated and which aren’t. Took some ‘active b complex’ few months ago and had an anxiety spike for a few days afterwards. Could well have been just a normal bump in the road of recovering, but it did leave me with the ‘what if’

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Active means methylated. They’re tolerated differently by everyone, not everyone runs into issues. But if you didn’t notice any long lasting effects from it, don’t worry about it.

When it comes to concentrated vitamins such as those, it's probably best to only take them two to three times week, tops. It depends how you feel. Sometimes once a week is all that's necessary.

You see, the issue (pfs) isn't static. It's constantly changing. This makes taking certain things tricky so you have be careful not to over do it. Better to err on the side of caution.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

When it comes to concentrated vitamins such as those, it's probably best to only take them two to three times week, tops. It depends how you feel. Sometimes once a week is all that's necessary.

You see, the issue (pfs) isn't static. It's constantly changing. This makes taking certain things tricky so you have be careful not to over do it. Better to err on the side of caution.

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I’d avoid them all together. I only made the post because if you find yourself stuck with the things I’m describing, they require you to proactively fix them, which if you’re already plagued with PFS adds insult to injury further.

Great post man. it's a high risk high reward system with the active b forms, I don't know if I posted it here or only on hackstasis, but I was takin 17000% rda of b1(benfo) + 200% of the otheractive forms and around 500% of methylcobalamin for 1-2months on and off while starting with a week at once. High potassium intake, carbs with every meal and balanced nutrientratio balanced with a lot of sunexposure, with quite high magnesium, sodium, vit c and was rotating probably 10-15 supps to balance stuff out as I saw fit.
I don't really think the risk is worth the reward for any1 reading this AT ALL.
Knowing what I know now it's way better to take the longer route and trust the process of your body fixing stuff. The protocol here is extremely well and ppl should just stick to it. Also every single day is important, don't cheat yourself.
ty for posting a way out for ppl who got messed up by them!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bankai9000

Great post man. it's a high risk high reward system with the active b forms, I don't know if I posted it here or only on hackstasis, but I was takin 17000% rda of b1(benfo) + 200% of the otheractive forms and around 500% of methylcobalamin for 1-2months on and off while starting with a week at once. High potassium intake, carbs with every meal and balanced nutrientratio balanced with a lot of sunexposure, with quite high magnesium, sodium, vit c and was rotating probably 10-15 supps to balance stuff out as I saw fit.
I don't really think the risk is worth the reward for any1 reading this AT ALL.
Knowing what I know now it's way better to take the longer route and trust the process of your body fixing stuff. The protocol here is extremely well and ppl should just stick to it. Also every single day is important, don't cheat yourself.
ty for posting a way out for ppl who got messed up by them!

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How did you tolerate the active forms? Any issues? It seems like you took them the correct way and knew what you were doing, others aren’t as informed unfortunately. But I agree. I think in my case, since my body can’t convert folic acid to folate very well, it was necessary for me to take these active forms until I fixed my deficiencies. Now, I take them once in a while but not often.

I’m really hoping this post helps people in the future, if you search around, you’ll find a lot of guys who got screwed up by these vitamins, me included. But it’s absolutely fixable, easy even.