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Hi Xxluk,
I've experienced some of the same side effects myself from saw palmetto. Follow CDs regimen. It has helped me out tremendously, especially after doing a 7 day juice feast. This really fixed my gut issues and has given me back good BM's.
You will not heal overnight, but you will heal if you stick to the program and roll with the ups and downs.
Good luck
Im sorry to hear you got in this mess from minox.. It certainly has an effect on the androgen receptor according to studies (suppression) and maybe that is why is effective for hairloss like fin and dut and sp.
Most people dont get heavily affected by minox and my guess is that your system was about to go down easily..i used minox too before fin, spironolactone and other stupid stuff like nizoral
Shampoo. I was even using saw palmetto for a period. Things got down after a couple of fin pills so i guess i ve messed my body with all these substances before fin and fin was just the fatality in all this.
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Welcome. I've heard of anecdotes of your situation before but you're the first person I've interacted with that has this situation. There's plenty of great information on this site - form a recovery protocol using that information that works for you and then set it and forget it.
Thank you for believing my situation bro, it means a lot because many people brushed me off telling me it was in my head, haha these things are far beyond what my head could dream of... and I see you are well read on minoxidil, I am extremely impressed. I am so sorry to hear you are in this unfortunate club, but we will live to fight another day. I am looking for friends to talk to and support for this journey. I would love to add you guys on skype and we can exchange strategies and check up on how each other are doing
Thank you bro, yes I wish I had read those anecdotes before blindly dressing my head in such poison, not to worry, I am stronger than it is ;) As I said earlier, I'd like to keep in close contact with you guys, it would be helpful.
Thank you so much for your words of encouragement bro, reading that sentiment "You will not heal overnight, but you will heal if you stick to the program and roll with the ups and downs.
"
you are a light that shines in my starless sky, giving me some added hope, it means a lot, especially in a state like this
You're welcome. I've been there myself so I know exactly how you feel. Read everything these guys have posted on this forum. They know far more then I do. I'm just simply following the steps they provided.
Also, what they say is true and I know this is easier said than done when you are in the early stages but, do your best to not overthink and stress out about what you're going through. Accept that you have damaged your body and know that you have the ability to heal.
I keep telling myself I'm okay and will only get better.
Small update and/or piece of information; I noticed ever since I got PFS from minoxidil, my beard growth is x2 or maybe even x3 faster than it used to be. I spoke to 2-3 other guys who got PFS from minoxidil and they vouched that their beards grow way faster also. Do some people with PFS from propecia get increased beard growth or majority have slowed down?
You ll see a lot of crazy stuff in your body with pfs. Its constantly changing as it tries to find balance.
From my expereience with this thing i would advice you to relax, stick to a plan, go on with your life and hope for the best.
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Get your mind off the negatives. Stop reading horror stories, and up on the side effects of pfs. Start focusing on the positive and reading all the goodness that comes with healing. It's a marathon and not a sprint, and all starts with a posotive mind set.
Secondly, get your diet sorted. A healthy balanced diet is just as crucial and most important for the long term.
Read up on CDN's protocol and follow it. I'm gearing up to run a longer cycle of his herb ptotocol over here.
In addition, Pine Bark Extract+L-Citrulline and Resveratrol(Sustain Alpha) have been the most effective long term for my errection quality. I can get more into this if you would like.
I also have begun to find Cordyceps Militaris to be extremely healing towards my body. Best adaptogen I have used to date.
EDIT: Avoid hormones/PHs for a while. I know they play a part in the CDN protocol, but are far from the most important part and really is not crucial to your recovery. There will be a time and place if you ever do choose so.
And for what its worth: My PFS like symptoms came about from abusing Prohormones in my late teens. We are all here trying to recover from fucking up our bodies. If it counts towards some hope, I am completely recovered, or close enough to it. Time and healthy lifestyle were the most important.
recovering from prohormones is different from recovering from PFS, is it not? Yeah i've been focusing on the positive stories and the recovery stories too. Thank you for your positive outlook. just finding it difficult go on with my life when im void of interests and passion. thank you for your input my bro
Recovering from prohormones mainly has to do with the hpa axis.
Pfs is a different story. Raised by the wolves-Trained by the pain.. Thats pfs..
The good part is when you get over this you'll feel untouchable.
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Guys, they're actually not that different. He's not referring to your basic "PCT" recovery.
He lived a disciplined lifestyle, with healthy diet, herbal supplementation, and top-notch exercise while cutting out toxins. His body healed after that - he gave the body the environment it needed to do it's healing over TIME. Let's not reinvent the wheel here, Grape's situation was most likely just as bad and emotionally/physically damaging as PFS.
Yes, not trying to undermine or devalue grape's experience, it's just that his situation could've been corrected with drugs, if I'm not mistaking? I don't want to come off rude, but botched PCTs and hypogonadism induced by messed up cycles are not any where near what PFS is.
Question for anyone recovered from PFS or anyone on their way to recovery, how do I cope with it on a day to day basis.
My main problems are sexual and whenever I go out in public and see a hot girl or a girl looks at me or tries to start a conversation with me, it just reminds me of PFS and it drops my mood immediately. I can't stop obsessing over the fact I got f*cked over by minoxidil and it feels so ridiculous and unreal that minoxidil of all things caused this... it's becoming a real problem. I'm not complaining, I'm just struggling with dealing with this thing and I keep becoming discouraged and depressed. I go through a cycle of ignoring it for a week then becoming fed up for 3 days then repeat.
I know this is a forum for positive attitudes and to neglect the negative emotions, that's why I'm asking this. I just want to know tips on how to deal with this. I hope I could get some honest feedback on this and not be condemned for asking advice on how to develop the mindset of a winner who has overcome PFS.
Thank you.
Firstly, if you are in it for the long run, you will constantly think of your situation or have it in the back of your head and it should be that way as health comes first for everyone. So, you have to come up with a plan if not to treat the syndrome, at least to help your body heal and speed up the recovery process. People who are recovered can help you in this.
Now, if you want to make the most out of the time where you will not be "normal", and i hope this wont last long, i suggest you get advantage of it and make your self a better person in every way you can. Go to the gym, run outside, clean your diet etc.
But the most important thing for me is to raise yourself mentally. I mean go to the next level intellectually. This will make you a better person eventually. Read books, study sciences by your own, construct ideas and reinvent yourself.
Dont get me wrong i am not saying you are not competent enough, i dont know you, just level up on this aspect. Become the best version of yourself..it will pay off later when you will get recovered for sure!
I ve been reading a lot lately and my favorite writer who lived in the previous century has some interestinf quotes which i believe apply to people having our condition. He believed that the right way of living life is the hard way! He even said that in order to be happy in life you must go through all sorrows! Crazy right? He is the greatest writer in my country and internationally known, im not talking about a nobody here, but for a person who obviously reached another intellectual level.
I can have sex whenever i want and i even got gf's through all this mess but i ve chosen now to abstain from relationships and going out a lot. Im waiting to be recovered completely, i would say im near there after 3 years, maybe i need another year tops. But i will get there no matter what. Thats what you got to believe through tough times, and there may be many..
Thats all! Sorry for the big post
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Thank you Justice for your insightful words and wisdom, I took everything you said to heart and have started implementing it into my new lifestyle.
Small update:
I am currently eating how I want for a week or so, having a loose diet. Mainly just drink whole milk and fruit smoothies. I'm going to do this for another week until I embark on CD's protocol, looking forward to cleansing my system. I want to do a 1-2 week water fast, I reckon I can do it, not with ease, but I know I can do it considering my appetite has been slightly diminished from this situation. However, I'm concerned of losing muscle on such a long period of time with no food, will I lose a lot or any in that duration of time? That is my main worry in regards to the water fast.
Sad thing is, I find that tribulus makes me crash. When I say crash I mean it exacerbates my symptoms, I will feel more emotionally unstable, more demotivated, worse sleep etc etc. I am concerned I may get this affect from other herbs, I suppose I will have to wait and see when I purchase CD's recommended ones.
In regards to relaxation, at night time I will drink a cup of camomile tea, with a magnesium tablet, also have a hot bubble bath, and then sexual activity before sleep.
I read teas are amazing for our immune system and general health, full of antioxidants. I definitely recommend tea considering it is so inexpensive and all of the health benefits you will reap from it.
Ok guys, so it's been perhaps my 3rd week into cycling cdnut's recommended herbs and I definitely notice strength gains in the gym from them. I am definitely stronger and lift weights with less effort than before the herbs however I have noticed next to no sexual enhancement from herb cycling, it could be because I haven't started juice feasting yet or paleo strictly, probably is that so I'm not disillusioned by my lack of results in that area.
I have been taking caffeine recently 100mgs in the morning or mid day crushed up and put in a bottle of apple juice. I feel alot more sociable, talkative, feeling and motivated in the gym with this routine. My feeling of complete and total social withdrawl only lasted 1-2 months, I am better than I was at that point my baseline has gone up very noticeable in the emotional/mental area.
Today idk if what I did was stupid but I decided to double up on macca root, take 2 tea spoons in morning and 2 at night + 2 ant essence pills. I have noticed no sexual benefit, but I have noticed my left testicle aching at random times, I hope I am going to be okay. I don't think I will do that again
I am feeling more positive towards the future however fits or rage and hopelessness do consume me at times. I'm moving house currently so I'm not wanting to commit to a solid diet until i'm established.
perhaps someone could confirm whether or not what i did in regards to stacking those sex herbs was a stupid/unsafe thing to do? i read that it was safe to stack herbs but judging by my aching nuts it may not be in my case? all feedback is welcome, cheers.
Dude,
Let me break it down for you. The way I'm reading you, it seems that you think you're going to magically have a libido again after a few weeks of cycling a few herbs. This doesn't work like that. This program is a long game program that fixes you from the bottom up, inside out. It's not going to happen over night, so you can put those thoughts down right away. This is a lifestyle change commitment. Think months and years, not weeks. You need to ride the ebb and flow of healing. You're going to be up, and down, over and over and over again. As long as the general trend is upward movement, and it will be, you're going to be okay.
The other thing I can't account for is the quality of your herbs....you're all the way on the otherside of the planet and I know you aren't able to get the exact stuff that I recommend. That being said, if you're doing everything else as recommended (which for some reason I doubt you are) the quality of the herbs won't be that big of a factor. When I started doing this, I didn't have access to good quality stuff either, but it still worked for me because I had diet, training, emotional poise and other supplementation correctly in place
I know it's hard to do now, but you need to relax, breathe (look into the Wim Hof method.....it's free, and it works...) and you need to get your shit in place and then set it, and forget it. Go about your life. Coming here and blowing up the forum and chatbox with questions many of these guys aren't going to have answers to simply because it's NOT A PROPECIA FORUM isn't going to win you any friends. They are just nice enough to let there be a subsection here. Let's respect it.
You need to QUIET YOUR MIND. This is why I've always recommended sometype of meditation. My newest recommendation is easily the Wim Hof method...there are others, but I feel that this is the best one to date. By doing this you automatically put your self into the present moment, which is where everything in your life happens. Not in the future, not in the past, not bouncing around in your own head, but right in the here and now. This is how you train your mind to STOP those intrusive and persistent negative thoughts. Just like with weight lifting, it's hard at first, but becomes easier and easier as you practice, and you should be practicing mindfullness mediation of some sort DAILY. If you can manage, more then daily is optimal.
This type of mental training will carrier over into every other aspect of your life and effect it POSITIVELY. I believe it's one part that guys don't take seriously, and it drives me nuts because they just don't know what they are missing.
BREATHE......and then do it again and again and again.
Also along with this you should be taking cold showers everyday. This will also strengthen your resilience to negative thinking and give you a more calm and balanced approach to your day. I'm not going to go into the benefits of all that right now....there is plenty online for you to look into.
But you NEED to be doing these two things daily so that you don't drive yourself mad. Take it from someone who's been there.....just do it.
Cheers mate for the reply, yeah I've come to realize it's not a quick fix. My next post will be when I have everything down that you recommended. I didn't mean to blow up the chat or come off as annoying bro, I am grateful for this section and the community that comes with it.
Thank you for your encouraging words and sternness on the matter. You breaking that down for me helped kind of shift my perception more, I thought I saw this as being a "long" journey, but no matter how I slice it, I keep getting frustrated with my lack of results, which indirectly shows...I'm not approaching it the way I should be. So thank you. You guys won't be hearing from me for a while, but may I ask is the DHT prohormone imperative to use/cycle? I was reading maxout's post and I was impressed and intrigued by his results with his results. I understand prohormones are quite toxic on the liver, and that's the last thing I want to be harming. But perhaps I'm jumping ahead of my self and trying to learn how to sprint before I know how to crawl. Haha, anyways I'll update you and everyone else on my progress in a few months. Early Merry Christmas since I won't be here to say so ;)
Prohormones are not imperative, but helpful. And in regards to this, only DHT based prohormones are to be used for this purpose. (PFS recovery and 5ar generation) Also the prohormones that are used in this regimen are not liver toxic as they are not methylated and they are already 5ar reduced. This being said, like everything else in this program, you need to have all other things in order before considering prohormone use. You can absolutely heal without using them, but when used properly they do tend to speed things along.
XXluk... i am not a expert in all this but let me tell you one thing... what you are facing today with respect to your mind giving you problems is absolutely normal for most of us... we were hit by the physicla aspect of PFS and soon we all followed it with putting a mental baggage inside our minds that we are not normal and that fucking thing has and will hinder our progress... just take this one thing from me .. no good thing in the regimen will come to you easily... put that in your mind... every good thing will come gradually and with lot of practice and patience ... and for all that your mind has to be in the best possible positive attitude and very close to reality .. rest all will follow..we will be there one day .. but thats just not today yet... all the best
for your info:- i am a long long way into the protocol now... and have really come to a stage where i can think myself to a erection and even today ... after getting into a beautiful sexual mode , just one thought of PFS crossing my mind will will make me dull and worried .. but i quickly move away from that thought... so its the MIND that needs to be in the best shape for this recovery
wtf is this really?
I should but a bullet in my spine and cripple myself after reading this stupid thread minox is a drug that has been used for blood pressure u that sides that u fucking wrote can't happen even if u jump on a tranny regime well they will happen if u wore on a tranny regime but not in a fucking 2 weeks stupid guys like u gave me sides not 3 pills of fin whats more want me to cripple my self is ppl believing u and replying u damn its the looney house here just as any fucking hair loss site like one guy claiming he lost his teeth after one pill of fin and now has a female teeth
fuck this stupidity
Hi guys ive made progress in regards to my mind since doing 6 month zero/low carb/sugar regime, and i have to say i had made a lot of gains in regards to the mental aspect: my brainfog started getting a lot better, feeling motivation for living life again/making money, wanting to socialize more,no more insomnia/finding it difficult to fall asleep, just wanting to go out and do things again, the emotional numbness was slowly lifting.
the sexual area was still more or less the same, however i get morning/night time erections regularly again, which is an improvement.
now i have been experiencing a terrible setback these past couple of days which is catastrophic, ill give some context it may be a long read.
so basically i had a cheat day on saturday which consisted of ice coffee/black coffee/pizza/cookies/milk/store bought kefir throughout the day. the next day i woke up and felt okay, i slept fine and felt fine.
since i ate a lot of junk, i decided to eat just a little this this day (which is sunday). so i woke up i took 2 sprays of the iodine, had the recomended dosages of l-arginine, l-tysorine, quercetin bromlean and some chinese herb schisandra and then i had a green tea with 2 teabags. then for breakfast i had 500g of squid + 3 table spoons of olive oil.
so i went on with my day and i felt lethargic and pretty foggy, but i still felt ok. i decided to cut carbs this day since i had so many day prior, so later on i felt a little more hungry (was maybe 3pm at this point) so i decided to have some more squid. so i had 500g more of squid (squid is a good source of lean protein and is very easy to eat) i had this. (so 1kg of squid in total)
so an hour or 2 later i started getting a headache, so i took a panadol and asprin, then decided to take a hot bath ( i was feeling more cold than usual) after i got out and i was sitting in the living room, i started feeling light headed/more detatched/feeling of something going wrong, i started feeling just nervous/panicky/spaced out. so i figured it was probably low blood sugar, so i ate 3 bananas and drank a glass of sprite. i felt like i was going to die, i dont know how to explain it.
so i went to sleep still feeling spaced out/nervous.
i woke up (this is monday now) feeling vulnerable/spaced out/delicate. as opposed to feeling robust/strong, which i have been feeling mostly these days. so as the day progressed i got a throbbing headache, and a terrible mood/more numbed out. so throughout the day i felt zero motivation/spaced out/partially confused/my thought process became much more limited/brainfog/confusion.
so now next day (which is tuesday) i have nightmares/waking up in the middle of the night feeling confused, forgetting where i was/feeling a throbbing pressure on my brain, just worried this will never end. i go back to sleep. anyways, i have a headache for the entirety of tuesday aswell as numbed out feelings/motivation is zero at this point also. just resting/eating chicken/vegetables.
so i go to sleep feeling not that much different from that day, and (now it's Wednesday) its 10.37am im writing this i still feel spaced out/barely any motivation/more numbed out emotions than usual, closer to how i was at the start of this whole ordeal a year ago.
i was wondering was it all the squid i ate+iodine spray perhaps giving me some sort of toxic reaction to too much iodine? because i looked up iodine poisoning but the only symptom that i had similer to the list was "stupor".
i think it may be me going hypoglycemic and this is what they call a "hypoglycemic hangover" i read many people describing these similer feelings 1-3 days after going low blood sugar. i think the chinese herbs i take thin the blood or something. but im not sure, ive never had this reaction and its been 3 days now and i still feel fucked up, i feel how i felt a year ago and im worried ive really gone backwards... im so upset, i was really making progress in regards to motivation for life again, socializing but this seems like such a needless fuckup on my part, i didnt even feel like i was pushing my body, i do things like this regularly like holding off on eating carbs sugar all the time and never experienced somthing as catastrophic as this.
i cant believe i went from all that progress i made from all these months to singlehandedly going a year backwards in the course of a day.... i dont understand, will this be lassting? surely not? i just need some reasurance and some guidance on what to do next
im taking a break on the chinese herbs and just taking those amino acids i listed earlier and zinc/magnesium and artichoke extract other than that i stopped most my supplements
what should i do to remedy this? i am feeling really helpless at this point. i feel half lobotomized, this really contrasts the absolute night and day progress i had made prior to this -_-..
@cdnuts? anybody please
You binged on absolute garbage while still in a delicate state (despite feeling better) and you're wondering why your crashing so hard? It's because of what you took in that day? Can't you see it? It's plain as day in your writing. It's not the squid, it's not the iodine or herbs. They were all treating you fine until you went off the rails because you shocked your healing system with complete junk.
You can't do that bro....lol. That's what happens.
And it may FEEL like you went a year backwards, but you haven't . You'll get back on track quickly by doing the right things again.
just to chime in, the key thing is not to panic here bro because that will put you back more than need be, do NOT mindfuck yourself. You know the drill with this stuff, ups and downs even when you're doing the clean stuff consistently. You know where you went wrong too. Just ride it out and look forward to an upswing, the sooner you stop analysing how fucked you feel you'll remove the pressure, lower the cortisol and away you go.
hey boys, yeah im feeling much better, almost back to baseline. was just taken back when i started feeling like an absolute moron again, its just frightening but atleast it shows how much progress ive made haha
hey guys ive been starting to impliment bananas into my diet, id like to know people's experience with it. I've noticed if i have it too late in the night i cant sleep, is this an insulin thing or something? ive noticed if i have bananas late then i wake up destroyed and feel lazy, but if i have them earlier i sleep easier. Also anyone think getting a tattoo in this state could be bad?
I would be leaving that until you are recovered
I think bananas are great. I recently added them into my diet. 2 bananas a day if i can. but i noticed that they can keep me awake slightly longer as well, if i eat them too late in the evening. so i just wont eat one too late at night. but a good friend of mine told me that they have testosterone boosting properties to them, and i honestly think i feel it! i feel good after i eat one!
tattoos... got them at 27 years old... YEARS after i already had PFS. seemed to have no negative effect whatsoever. zero effect/neutral, etc. But i wouldnt take any risks at this stage in the game if i were you. Or myself for that matter, as well.
Not sure about the banana thing, maybe you are more carb sensitive, do you have gut issues? I personally stick to the low sugar fruits.
However you look at it, getting, and even having a tattoo is a stress to the body. Your immune system sees the ink (which contains heavy metals) as a foreign substance and is constantly trying to get rid of it (hence why they fade over time).
I'd wait until your recovered so your body is in a better position to deal with it.
thx for your input my man, its much appreciated. yes i have gut issues, mainly constipation and i have a plethora of food allergies; i am literally allergic to every kind of complex carb, i break down in hives and i get bad lethargy/brainfog/irritation from it aswell as all the skin rashes. im just on very low carbs atm + high fat/high protein, i feel my best on that diet tbh and skin irritation is at a minimum
I have tattoos, but I had them prior to PFS. They didn't keep me from recovering, for what it's worth. However, I can't say if they would be a good idea in this state.
I deal with this same thing, I've always been prone to carbs giving me a sugar crash and making me feel lazy, but now after PFS, I'm straight up hypoglycemic. If I eat a lot of shitty carbs, it will absolutely take hours out of my day where I can barely function properly. It's pretty unreal, and I'd say, if your body isn't into it, then don't put it in your body. I have also battled eczema, which has been especially bad in the last few years, mainly on my scalp, which has almost completely subsided after ceasing my carb intake.
I can eat small amounts and be fine, but it seems that my adrenal glands are shot, which would explain the issues with handling stress (cortisol,) carbs (blood sugar) and a plethora of other secondary issues involving the HPA axis that is most likely not in a good place in people like you and me. Fun fact, HPA-axis also has a lot of sexual components that would explain low-libido and ED when compromised- though I don't believe this is the only cause of our sexual symptoms.
stay away from carbs until you are recovered. in fact, stay away from binge-eating all together, you should see massive progress if you're anything like me.
BROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO u sound just like me! I've been using steroid creams to treat my eczema all my life, i never knew it was to do with the gut. as soon as i cut out carbs/sugars from everything i feel great and my skin becomes that of a super model's, but if i eat 1 small thing, even an apple, i break out all over my arms/face/neck, its ridiculous. It sounds like our issues are identical honestly, i've never actually spoken to someone with these same exact skin issues, woah thats actually so cool! thank you so much for chiming in my bro!!! i'm so glad to hear you have seen progress, you're a legend