thoughts on progesterone / pregnenolone

I've been reading a lot about both recently, especially in relation to adrenal fatigue.

the consensus with most of these more invasive hormonal treatments is that it can help or hurt depending. you definitely gotta take it easy on this stuff, but I've read much about benefits for PFS sufferers.

what are yalls experience or thoughts?

This has been talked about in depth already a bunch of times, just use the search button and you can find a lot of info

pregnanalone can convert to neuroandrogens. progesterone i dont think does.

I don't think either of them are necessary to recover.

They may be marginally helpful, but they're not the be all end all of anything.

for me personally it was huge. I got the bulk of my personality back from preg. still missing that 'killer instinct' at times though but it's there at others.

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Originally Posted by jacknap

for me personally it was huge. I got the bulk of my personality back from preg. still missing that 'killer instinct' at times though but it's there at others.

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That's great man. I was just speaking more in regards to my own experience as I recovered without using them.

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Originally Posted by jacknap

for me personally it was huge. I got the bulk of my personality back from preg. still missing that 'killer instinct' at times though but it's there at others.

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Hey bro, are you still taking pregnenolone? Is it still helping?

pregnenolone didnt do jack shit for me, neither did allepregnenolone


considering taking topical progesterone since people on PH swear it helps them with brain fog, and ive tried just about everything for this brain fog except that

Me neither last yr. May now, never tried post fast. Rather be as natural as possible (for me). It may very well do something now... but why bother, coming this far without it.

I literally wrote about "killer instinct" on my blog in the other place. Came back 4-7mo ago.

This process (recovery) was and is still at times difficult. I am certain that PSSD took longer from fitness/cleansed state. I should have fasted like hell then too. And never have taken accutane (many yrs ago as a kid), and instead: fasted 2 weeks. I am being sincere.

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Originally Posted by Jado

Hey bro, are you still taking pregnenolone? Is it still helping?

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I stopped taking it like last year I think. Don't really need it. It's good for energy. Might pick some up actually and cycle it once a week just for that. I used it a lot before I fully got on the protocol and fasted. summer of 2017 july/august. helped me get some sleep / energy / personality.

it's not really necessary though and I don't think anyone recovered from it. so i'd just stick to the blueprinet cd says or checkout what the guys at hackstasis are doing if you're open to the complex lol

True, true. @jacknap. Very concise answer.
Stick to basics, or make some crazier plan, but it's simpler to follow plans here, and CD. For many.
Just don't deviate on and on from whatever plan you choose at guy posting above jknp's last post.
Also consider, plan becoming more clear as you go on.
Actually, yeah don't make a crazier plan... that's pretty hard to do, and in a bad state... is impossible. Not saying your state is bad.

Man, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it. Was wanting to try it for brain fog/mood enhancement. My worst symptoms are dizziness, brain fog, anxiety/depression. Definitely not expecting recovery, just as another tool in the chest so-to-speak. Thanks again!

Thanks for the input. State isn't too bad. I vacillate between 80-90% and then drop to 60-70%. I'm totally sold on the protocol, to be honest. Logically, it just makes sense. Just looking for another possible tool.

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Originally Posted by Jado

Man, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it. Was wanting to try it for brain fog/mood enhancement. My worst symptoms are dizziness, brain fog, anxiety/depression. Definitely not expecting recovery, just as another tool in the chest so-to-speak. Thanks again!

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Are you in 100%? Cold showers, breathing, etc on the daily?

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Originally Posted by Jado

Thanks for the input. State isn't too bad. I vacillate between 80-90% and then drop to 60-70%. I'm totally sold on the protocol, to be honest. Logically, it just makes sense. Just looking for another possible tool.

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If that's where your starting point is, your recovery should be swift if you go all in.

Yeah man, I'm all in (except the pumping). Cold showers, for sure; could do better on the breathing though. When I feel really good I kind of forget to do it... I'll start incorporating breathing every day when I do my daily reading/meditate. I think I'm just rushing it. I've been doing the protocol for 5 months now, and I've noticed significant improvement. So, I think, when a downswing comes it's kind of a shock, cuz I feel so good prior to it. Then I get in my head about it, ya know. I just need to stay positive and trust the process. I know I'm gonna get 100%. I just want it sooner than later. Still pondering an R Andro cycle...I have it, just haven't pulled the trigger, yet.

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Originally Posted by Jado

Yeah man, I'm all in (except the pumping). Cold showers, for sure; could do better on the breathing though. When I feel really good I kind of forget to do it... I'll start incorporating breathing every day when I do my daily reading/meditate. I think I'm just rushing it. I've been doing the protocol for 5 months now, and I've noticed significant improvement. So, I think, when a downswing comes it's kind of a shock, cuz I feel so good prior to it. Then I get in my head about it, ya know. I just need to stay positive and trust the process. I know I'm gonna get 100%. I just want it sooner than later. Still pondering an R Andro cycle...I have it, just haven't pulled the trigger, yet.

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Good. Sounds like you have it down.

It happens with the breathing when you're feeling good. It's a little labor intensive so when things are good, it's easy to brush off....but...that's exactly when you need to keep doing it so that you can build upon that good foundation. Being consistent allows you to get ahead, so to speak.

Percentage wise, where would you say you're at?

It's kind of hard to say. When I'm in an upswing, I'm like 80%-90%, but when I'm in a downswing in like 65%-75%. The main downswing issue is the mental sides. I mean, I'll get some dizziness/brain fog, but it's not nearly as bad as it used to be. All other sides i.e. brain fog, libido, fatigue, dizziness, headaches, GI, etc., all stay around 80%, even in a downswing. The worst are the pesky mental sides. That's why I was inquiring about pregnenolone. Anyway, it's far better just gonna keep pushing. It'll happen.

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Originally Posted by Jado

It's kind of hard to say. When I'm in an upswing, I'm like 80%-90%, but when I'm in a downswing in like 65%-75%. The main downswing issue is the mental sides. I mean, I'll get some dizziness/brain fog, but it's not nearly as bad as it used to be. All other sides i.e. brain fog, libido, fatigue, dizziness, headaches, GI, etc., all stay around 80%, even in a downswing. The worst are the pesky mental sides. That's why I was inquiring about pregnenolone. Anyway, it's far better just gonna keep pushing. It'll happen.

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Mental sides imo are the worst. You just can't shake em and you can't "walk it off."

The breathing exercises, meditation and cold showers do wonders for a healthy brain though. I would have recovered sooner had I found them earlier in my recovery process.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

Mental sides imo are the worst. You just can't shake em and you can't "walk it off."

The breathing exercises, meditation and cold showers do wonders for a healthy brain though. I would have recovered sooner had I found them earlier in my recovery process.

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For sure. I'm going to keep at it, implementing the protocol until I'm 100%! Thanks so much for the reply and for giving your time/energy. You didn't have to do any of this, but I'm grateful you did. "For whatever a man sows, that he will also reap". You've sown a lot of good, man. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Jado

For sure. I'm going to keep at it, implementing the protocol until I'm 100%! Thanks so much for the reply and for giving your time/energy. You didn't have to do any of this, but I'm grateful you did. "For whatever a man sows, that he will also reap". You've sown a lot of good, man. Thanks.

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Appreciate the kind words my man.

Just keep plugging along. You'll be there before you know it.

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Originally Posted by Lakehouse99

pregnenolone didnt do jack shit for me, neither did allepregnenolone


considering taking topical progesterone since people on PH swear it helps them with brain fog, and ive tried just about everything for this brain fog except that

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Did you ever try progesterone?

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Originally Posted by JoeP26

Speaking personally, myself, progesterone cream 25mg once every night applied to either the upper chest and shoulders or the back of the neck is quite nice for PFS. Very relaxing and diminishes a lot of mental and neuro-cognitive symptoms. Those areas are heavily saturated with both types of 5ar (SRD5A1 and SRD5A2) as well as conversion to DHP then Allo. You would just wanna make sure your estradiol doesn't get high on it because it can block 5ar type 2 (blocking T to DHT conversion thus causing more T to E2 conversion). But this is usually only high doses (100+mg).

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So what do you try to keep your progesterone level at?

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Originally Posted by JoeP26

Men can have serum levels up to about 1ng/mL. Some labs have outdated ranges claiming anything above .2 is high but that's total crap. I keep mine around .8 to 1.

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Is pregnenalone one of those supps that’s essentially a bandaid that relieves symptoms only when you take it, or could it be used as something that starts kickstarting things downstream like prohormones?

Is applying andro a bandaid fix or will it change the way receptors function in the longterm?

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Originally Posted by JoeP26

Both Pregnenolone and DHEA supplements are what Dr. Mark Gordon uses to treat PFS. He also uses gonaditropins, B complex, and various other supplements (some are in CD's protocol, in fact) in these liquid cocktails. Some have recovered with this approach. Pregnenolone itself is an easily acquired supplement with no real risk of any suppression. It has a positive feedback loop that prevents that, meaning you can use and quit with everything returning to normal baseline, as dose DHEA and Androsterone. Androsterone is what R-Andro is made of. It's also in Andro Hard and Ultra Hard but stacked with an additional ingredient, EpiAndrosterone, as the primary ingredient.

The problem with Pregnenolone, DHEA, and EpiAndrosterone is that they either directly or downstream stimulate Glutamate production and either directly or downstream create metabolites that act as antagonists to the GABAA receptors. Bare in mind with PFS that because 5ar got blocked, it consequently blocked the production of several Allosteric Modulators/neurosteroids. The big ones being Allopregnanolone, THDOC, and Androsterone. They agonize the GABAA receptors and stimulate Glutamic Acid Decarboxylase, which is another enzyme that converts the neurotransmitter, Glutamate (a stimulant neurotransmitter), into GABA (a sedative neurotransmitter that counter acts Glutamate's action on the CNS). The neurosteroids both agonize GABAA receptors and potentiate GABA's action on GABAA leading to sedation of the CNS, senses of well-being, euphoria, sleep, anti-stress, anti-anxiety, anti-depression, and anti-inflammation. In PFS, GABAA receptors are very upregulated because of this blockage from Finasteride and other 5ARIs. This also causes excess Glutamate signaling, since it can no longer convert, leading to neuro-inflammation, damage to neurons, cognitive impairment, anxiety, restlessness, brain fog, insomnia, excess pain signaling, and the list goes.

This is why I personally have not been a fan of prohormones with EpiAndrosterone in them. It's just going to potentially lead to further issues in those who have too little GABA and severely upregulated GABAA receptors. Supplementing Pregnenolone and DHEA is the same story. Pregnenolone splits off into other pathways other than progesterone. It also goes into the sulfated form, Pregnenolone Sulfate, which causes exactly what I outlined above. DHEA directly stimulates glutamate production and DHEA Sulfate, the metabolite of DHEA, antagonizes GABAA.

Personally, I have used those compounds in the past and they never helped me at all. Pregnenolone at one point made feel way worse neurologically. I dropped those altogether and just went straight for progesterone, testosterone (with an AI always, force that DHT), DHP, and Androsterone. All of that bypasses those pathways with those metabolites that antagonize GABAA and stimulate Glutamate.

That being said, there are times when it's justified in some PFS'ers to use Pregnenolone and DHEA supplementation. You can easily get a doctor to test those (if they're personally willing) and determine if you're low in them. Ideally, you want to be smack dab in the center of the reference ranges. If adequate or higher, you do not want to do it. Bad idea.

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Thanks for the well thought out response man. I appreciate it

Could you in a way counteract the epi with big doses of theanine to partially activate the glutamate instead?

I oddly respond better to the blend of Epi and Andro (Ultra Hard) rather than just pure Andro.

I somewhat enjoy the stimulating effect Epi has, whereas I just don’t feel pure Andro as much. I think others have responded better to the blend as well. Maybe there’s some genetic variance here?

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Originally Posted by JoeP26

Any kind of exogenous hormone use will change epigenetic expression. Androsterone should change the expression in the long run for the better. But not EpiAndrosterone.

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Question about this statement. Using UltraHard (Epi and Andro) would still downregulate AR receptors correct? Just not help with the GABAA receptors as much as just Androsterone alone would?

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Originally Posted by JoeP26

It will but it will also upregulate GABAA receptors and this may make problems worse for some who are neurosteroid deficient in the brain and already have severely upregulated GABAA receptors. Androsterone solo products would prevent that and actually help downregulate GABAA, which you'd typically want in PFS.

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Great info, man

Now I just need someone to tell me how to get my hands on some andro in the EU

Looking for some andro products available in the EU I came across this:

https://www.predatornutrition.com/pr...o+Testosterone)

Blend:
Androsterone (150mg)
1 androstene-3b-ol,17-one (50mg)
4 androstene-3b-ol,17-one (50mg)
Arimistane (50mg)

I'm doubtful about the Arimistane (which is an aromatase inhibitor)

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by jacknap

for me personally it was huge. I got the bulk of my personality back from preg. still missing that 'killer instinct' at times though but it's there at others.

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Did you take oral or topical pregnenolone and what dose? Thanks

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Originally Posted by JoeP26

It will but it will also upregulate GABAA receptors and this may make problems worse for some who are neurosteroid deficient in the brain and already have severely upregulated GABAA receptors. Androsterone solo products would prevent that and actually help downregulate GABAA, which you'd typically want in PFS.

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What are your qualifications to tell him this you fucking weirdo