Crashed from rogaine. Can I try TRT?

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Originally Posted by Crashed

Crashed from rogaine few years ago got all the pfs symptoms; low libido, low eq, low energy, poor mood, food sensitivities, eczema etc

I've tried a lot of chit and I'm just wondering if it would be safe to do TRT? I've looked through this forum looking for people mentioning doing TRT and no ones said it?

I really wanna get on TRT and see if it works. I did pinepollen and it made me feel almost 80% recovered but then slipped to baseline. Thoughts?

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TRT doesn't cure PFS. It only relieves it to an extent while you're on it, if you react fine to it. But TRT itself is a drawback long term because it will shutdown your natural testosterone and progesterone production, as the testes make both. In PFS, this is a big problem because the studies show low levels of progesterone and its metabolites 5a-Dihydroprogesterone and Allopregnanolone in the brain that bind to GABA receptors. The synthesis of those steroids in the brain environment were shutdown and the brain is riding on fumes from what your testes are producing. You shut that down too, you'll feel worse. Additionally, you'd be risking infertility, since FSH tanks too and is needed to stimulate sperm production.

Speaking as someone who has run TRT before, it's not a magic cure to this.

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Originally Posted by Crashed

Regardless there are many men who r sufering from 'pfs' just from minoxidil. https://www.askapatient.com/viewrati...+%28FOR+MEN%29

thats only dating back from 2020, theres far more people from 2015 but the old ones get pushed down. its really tragic

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You’re right….we can play the linking studies game all day long, so what’s the point? You linked to studies saying one thing and he listed studies saying the complete opposite.

Bottom line is, Minoxidil can create pfs symptoms in certain men. Many of them are here fixing themselves.

I’m not sure why you’re arguing with them? These guys are not making this up. Their lives are ruined for the moment which is why they’re here
The last thing they need is to be told what they are going through isn’t real…..they’ve had enough of that from the medical community.

I appreciate the help, but this section is a bit different then the other sections on this forum. I’ve been running this subsection for almost five years and have seen and (helped fix) it all.

I know you have vast knowledge when it comes to gear and products of that nature. I have vast knowledge about pfs and pfs like conditions. It’s what I’ve been doing for almost a decade.

The medical community in this regards is useless, which is why their “studies” are useless as well. You can pick out any study and sure as shit you can find another scientific study contradicting the first.

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Originally Posted by BBG

I'm pretty well versed in hair loss treatments and medication. Rogaine has no effect on male hormones. Minoxidil is a vasodilator, not a 5ar inhibitor.

Finasteride can cause PFS probably because it inhibits the 5ar enzyme. 5ar is responsible not just for DHT production but also other for neurosteroids that can affect your mental state. Patients treated for male pattern hair with finasteride show, after discontinuation of the drug, altered levels of neuroactive steroids in cerebrospinal fluid and plasma - PubMed

There's no evidence that minoxidil can or will have any of the effects of a 5ar.

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https://hackstasis.com/threads/minox...xpression.702/

https://hrcak.srce.hr/file/284618

Edit: nvm someone already posted it, but PFS "symptoms" aren't exclusive to finasteride. It can happen on multiple drugs/compounds for example even with deca since it also acts a synthetic progestin (from progesterone) as well which is what finasteride is made from. It not only exclusive to DHT either as finasteride lowers tons of hormones down stream than just DHT.

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Originally Posted by Cdsnuts

I’m not sure why you’re arguing with them? These guys are not making this up. Their lives are ruined for the moment which is why they’re here
The last thing they need is to be told what they are going through isn’t real…..they’ve had enough of that from the medical community.

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I'm not saying the symptoms are made up. I'm saying that minoxidil probably didn't cause the issue.

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https://hackstasis.com/threads/minox...xpression.702/

https://hrcak.srce.hr/file/284618

Edit: nvm someone already posted it, but PFS "symptoms" aren't exclusive to finasteride. It can happen on multiple drugs/compounds for example even with deca since it also acts a synthetic progestin (from progesterone) as well which is what finasteride is made from.

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Yeah, the symptoms from PFS/Finasteride aren't isolated to only finasteride. But just because two people report the same symptoms doesn't mean they need to same cure.


Take Erectile Dysfunction for example. What are some causes?
- High blood pressure
- Very low estrogen
- Low testosterone
- High prolactin
- Depression/stress/anxiety
- Drug use/abuse
- Metabolic Snydrome

None of these causes are going to solved by any one solution. The only way to know how to fix the symptom properly is to know what the actual cause of the malady is.

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It not only exclusive to DHT either as finasteride lowers tons of hormones down stream than just DHT.

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Yeah I addressed that in another post somewhere and so did Joe. One of the worst things Finasteride does is block Allopregnanolone and Isopregnanolone from being formed.

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Originally Posted by BBG

I'm not saying the symptoms are made up. I'm saying that minoxidil probably didn't cause the issue.

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what else could have caused it, when that's literally the only thing I introduced before my hormones crashed? hundreds of other men saying the same chit, never touching fin or sawpalmeto too. You dont seem to be a very flexible thinker..

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Originally Posted by BBG

I'm not saying the symptoms are made up. I'm saying that minoxidil probably didn't cause the issue.



Yeah, the symptoms from PFS/Finasteride aren't isolated to only finasteride. But just because two people report the same symptoms doesn't mean they need to same cure.


Take Erectile Dysfunction for example. What are some causes?
- High blood pressure
- Very low estrogen
- Low testosterone
- High prolactin
- Depression/stress/anxiety
- Drug use/abuse
- Metabolic Snydrome

None of these causes are going to solved by any one solution. The only way to know how to fix the symptom properly is to know what the actual cause of the malady is.



Yeah I addressed that in another post somewhere and so did Joe. One of the worst things Finasteride does is block Allopregnanolone and Isopregnanolone from being formed.

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Post Finasteride syndrome, in my opinion, exposes some sort of weakness in the androgen receptor where they don’t function properly after being inhibited.

We live in a country (if you’re in the US) where there are literally endocrine disrupters in the air you breathe and the water you drink in the form of pollutants such as pesticides and neonicotinoids. Stack that with a drug that inhibits androgen receptors such as Minoxidil* along with weak androgen receptor genetics (high IQ/high immune system individuals, look into CAG repeats for an example of this correlation) and you get PFS.

*I debunked the two studies you posted but the site was down so it’s lost. In short, my studies are from 2014 and 2017 respectively while yours are from 1987 to 1999, to put time into perspective. The gains in knowledge we have on endocrine disrupters in that time frame is huge. The 2014 study directly addresses both of the studies you posted, the Syrian hamster one (which studies testosterone, not DHT or 5arII/ARs, in FEMALE rats) and the 1999 one which saw a very small increase in 5arII that could be considered negligible. The two studies I posted are very comprehensive, I’ve read the 2014 Korea one from top to bottom and it’s indisputable evidence that Minoxidil is indeed an anti androgen. It literally images the androgen receptor and how minoxidil inhibits it’s function on a micro cellular level. With my own personal experience with Minoxidil, I DO find it has an anti androgenic effect on me because my skin went pale and dry after applying and a heavy brain fog sets in almost instantly after applying.

I never took any other drug other than 5% Kirkland Minoxidil for 6 months, twice per day, although I did rub peppermint oil on my scalp once in an attempt to grow hair. My priorities were out of whack back then.

Again not trying to disrespect you but I have my suspicions you might be on Minoxidil or a similar drug, which is fine, we all have the desire to keep our hair. And maybe you have the genetics to handle the endocrine disruption. Who knows. But Min IS antiandrogen and can cause PFS since it’s applied systemically twice daily in large dosages.

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Originally Posted by Zonz

Post Finasteride syndrome is, in my opinion, exposes some sort of weakness in the androgen receptor where they don’t function properly after being inhibited.

We live in a country (if you’re in the US) where there are literally endocrine disrupters in the air you breathe and the water you drink in the form of pollutants such as pesticides and neonicotinoids. Stack that with a drug that inhibits androgen receptors such as Minoxidil* along with weak androgen receptor genetics (high IQ/high immune system individuals, look into CAG repeats for an example of this correlation) and you get PFS.

*I debunked the two studies you posted but the site was down so it’s lost. In short, my studies are from 2014 and 2017 respectively while yours are from 1987 to 1999, to put time into perspective. The gains in knowledge we have on endocrine disrupters in that time frame is huge. The 2014 study directly addresses both of the studies you posted, the Syrian hamster one (which studies testosterone, not DHT or 5arII/ARs, in FEMALE rats) and the 1999 one which saw a very small increase in 5arII that could be considered negligible. The two studies I posted are very comprehensive, I’ve read the 2014 Korea one from top to bottom and it’s indisputable evidence that Minoxidil is indeed an anti androgen. It literally images the androgen receptor and how minoxidil inhibits it’s function on a micro cellular level. With my own personal experience with Minoxidil, I DO find it has an anti androgenic effect on me because my skin went pale and dry after applying and a heavy brain fog sets in almost instantly after applying.

I never took any other drug other than 5% Kirkland Minoxidil for 6 months, twice per day, although I did rub peppermint oil on my scalp once in an attempt to grow hair. My priorities were out of whack back then.

Again not trying to disrespect you but I have my suspicions you might be on Minoxidil or a similar drug, which is fine, we all have the desire to keep our hair. And maybe you have the genetics to handle the endocrine disruption. Who knows. But Min IS antiandrogen and can cause PFS since it’s applied systemically twice daily in large dosages.

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Yea bro. it fked me up big time, never been the same since. im wanting to do the TRT + Cdnuts protocol method, im surely ill garner some benefits

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Originally Posted by BBG

I'm not saying the symptoms are made up. I'm saying that minoxidil probably didn't cause the issue.



Yeah, the symptoms from PFS/Finasteride aren't isolated to only finasteride. But just because two people report the same symptoms doesn't mean they need to same cure.


Take Erectile Dysfunction for example. What are some causes?
- High blood pressure
- Very low estrogen
- Low testosterone
- High prolactin
- Depression/stress/anxiety
- Drug use/abuse
- Metabolic Snydrome

None of these causes are going to solved by any one solution. The only way to know how to fix the symptom properly is to know what the actual cause of the malady is.



Yeah I addressed that in another post somewhere and so did Joe. One of the worst things Finasteride does is block Allopregnanolone and Isopregnanolone from being formed.

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I've been doing this long enough to see first hand that Minoxidil causes these issues as well. And you are incorrect.....the way to fix it IS THE SAME. We've got this down to a science at this point man. You bring the body back into homeostasis and most of the problems a guy is experiencing will just simply......vanish. You can never go wrong doing the right thing for your body. By treating it holistically all systems come back online and operate as they should.

BBG...we've been tackling this here for quite sometime. Plenty of info on this forum alone to comb through.

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Originally Posted by Zonz

Post Finasteride syndrome is, in my opinion, exposes some sort of weakness in the androgen receptor where they don’t function properly after being inhibited.
you but I have my suspicions you might be on Minoxidil or a similar drug, which is fine, we all have the desire to keep our hair. And maybe you have the genetics to handle the endocrine disruption. Who knows. But Min IS antiandrogen and can cause PFS since it’s applied systemically twice daily in large dosages.

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Yes I've taken minoxidil up to 10mg oral daily, along with topical applications. Along with finasteride. I'm one of the lucky few.

I stopped minoxidil though because it was raising my resting heart rate (water retention related) and I've since developed a much better PG related hair regrowth formula.

You've made me do some more digging on minoxidil and found another study showing potential 5ar inhibition from minoxidil Minoxidil Acts as an Antiandrogen: A Study of 5α-reductase Type 2 Gene Expression in a Human Keratinocyte Cell Line - PubMed

I was hoping to find another paper that mentioned 5ar and minoxidil but the only cited by paper is Effect of Oral Minoxidil for Alopecia: Systematic Review and it's just a study on oral minoxidil.

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BBG...we've been tackling this here for quite sometime. Plenty of info on this forum alone to comb through.

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I'm taking a look, this is the entry point for the herbs protocol right? Testosterone Boosting Supplement Rotation | Total Male Optimization

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Originally Posted by BBG

Yes I've taken minoxidil up to 10mg oral daily, along with topical applications. Along with finasteride. I'm one of the lucky few.

I stopped minoxidil though because it was raising my resting heart rate (water retention related) and I've since developed a much better PG related hair regrowth formula.

You've made me do some more digging on minoxidil and found another study showing potential 5ar inhibition from minoxidil Minoxidil Acts as an Antiandrogen: A Study of 5α-reductase Type 2 Gene Expression in a Human Keratinocyte Cell Line - PubMed

I was hoping to find another paper that mentioned 5ar and minoxidil but the only cited by paper is Effect of Oral Minoxidil for Alopecia: Systematic Review and it's just a study on oral minoxidil.



I'm taking a look, this is the entry point for the herbs protocol right? Testosterone Boosting Supplement Rotation | Total Male Optimization

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Yes. But I developed the site so that it can be read from the first page to the very last in succession.

If interested, you could always check out the results of the protocol here: Recoveries