Lol....yes....you are correct.
For some reason I was thinking half gallon instead of a liter.
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broke my water fast at the 11th day
I think things i gained from the fast = cleaner system, better skin, improved mood
literally see the wrinkles near my mouth like come off
one weird thing I started getting day 9-10 was facial contractions. Almost like a grimace. I still have it today. Not a good look. hope that goes away as I start refeeding. My theory is that because I used retin-a for like a year perhaps my body is detoxing from it. anyone else get it?
one thing I'm dissapointed with is it didn't get rid of the 'hole in my head' feeling / head pressure. Though it is a lot less from when I first crashed.
How much water is recommended during feasting and in general? During that fast I generally drank 3 Litres daily. I would also do around the same in my regular life.
I actually think I should have broke it a bit earlier like my original 7 day plan (+ 14 juice) as I actually think I had electrolyte issues on day 9. My jaw still have minor spasms that are slowly starting to go away but might have suffered some minor nerve damage - hopefully caught it early enough though that it's not that. Didn't think it was that originally though that it was a detox symptom from using retin-a before I crashed for a year.
I think 5 maybe 7 max should be done unsupervised.
What's people 2 cents on retin-a btw? I find it works incredible, but it's synthetic so I'd imagine kinda toxic to the liver so I binned it during recovery. Stick to quality collagen powder, skin brushing, organic moistuirizers and eating right...
I doubt you caused nerve damage during the cleanse
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yeah unlikely but also mind you that I got pfs from a one time topical dose of something which was also highly improbable so my system seems to be tres sensitive lol.
btw I did 3 hours of meditation last night in a row. Didn't go to another dimension unfortunately. One thing Joe Rogan is big on though is doing an edible in the sensory deprivation tank... something looking forward to trying when I recover lol.
I tried one of those float tanks based upon a pod cast I heard of his. It was an interesting experience to say the least. I have one not even fifteen minutes from my house. I prefer my usual meditation to the float tanks believe it or not. When I went, I did it for an hour and I plugged into my holosync program. I did toke up a bit before hand as well. It was an experience for sure.
yeah it wasn't productive. In those 3 hours there was probably like 20 minutes of actually being present. Had a lot of mind chatter. I imagine if I used bacoba and l-theanine during the session though it would have been more productive.
just tapped a girl I picked up from the mall before I crashed... I used L-Arginine 5g + Pine Pollen Tincture just before to give me a boost down below just in case...
is l-arginine okay to use once or twice a week as a boost down below?
what specific supplements help u guys the most with erections/libido?
butea I think helps my libido the most but it seems stimulatory so I feel like it would keep me up at night...
also thoughts on yohimbine? (super stimulatory and raises neuropepinphrine) I used to use this as a combo with phenibut before I crashed and would make me a fucking beeeast in bed. cant sleep all night with the combo tho. yohimbine is crazy cuz it ramps up libido and erections but has nasty sides.
Yes, I'm also curious about thoughts on L-arginine , I used it for about two months in early stages of getting sides as it was being recommended on lots of propecia sites and general ED sites like pegym etc that it was very good for blood flow to genitals etc
However, it had absolutely zero effect on me even taking it at higher doses, it had zero effect down below.
for me it works. from my research the dose for ED is 5 grams.
Ray Peat is against it's use though so I'm going to try to use it only in moderation eg) once a week or if it's a new girl that's 8.5/10 + lol.
what worked for you jimmy?
update. refeeding time
muscle spasms completely gone. ran low on electrolytes during my fast. magnesium, calcium in particular.
back in the gym. I lost maybe 10-20% strength but I think I'll get back to my level I was pre cleanse in a month via muscle memory and upping my lifts each week.
cleanse benefits = improved sleep (80% now), improved energy/mood (80%), improved poo (been shitting soooo much, I had some gut infections that I think the cleanse weakened + using grapefruit seed extract and prebiotic rich foods I think made my gut way healthier.
was able to fuck last night without the l-arginine and quite well. pine pollen powder I think is enough insurance to get the job done. can only do like one round a night though but that's good enough some guys don't even get laid for months or years lol mind u I was a sex maniac before I crashed so this is hard for me...
I think by end of october I'll be at like 75-80%. Things left libido still low 20%. Water retention in my face / torso making it moon shaped. Wakeup 1-2 times a night for 15 minutes each. Less aggression and drive to dominate the world like I used to (feel blase). Feel like I have a small hole in my head still.
Excited to run andro in 2-3 months if I can get my hands on it. Possibly try 5-adp as well in a month after herb cycling...
interstingly haidut (georgi) who created the 5adp said that using preg with a steroid enhances the properties of a steroid... might be something to consider on cycle? This was said on the danny roddy podcast with him
happy with my progress so far. coming from rock bottom. I basically had all the pfs symptoms + actual painful full body convulsions. Way closer to normal than I am that rock bottom state...
Interesting, i'm not discounting that Larginine could well work for blood flow etc. When i was taking it, it was early days of sides for me so i was in a really fucked up place both physically and mentally/really stressed so perhaps anything I took then wouldn't have had an effect, i hadn't done a fast at that stage and was turning to booze to ease anxiety which was a very very bad idea so that was far more likely the reason for it not having an effect on me.
In terms of whats worked so far for me really has been getting diet sorted, completely cutting alcohol, exercise before work and rotating the herbs.
Pine pollen has a calming effect on me, its great for my easing my stress, depending on when i take the other herbs they have a different effect, let me explain that better, yesterday was tongkat ali day and it floored me as in light headed, felt kind of out of it, had to sit on couch for a bit, the last couple of hits ive done of it it hasnt had that effect. Today was shilajit day and i got a really nice boost in libido, last couple of times on it I havent noticed too much, there's stuff going on with my body that I can't see (I'm not a scientific type of guy lol), like in waves as Coppersocks said in his last post, so I haven't been closely monitoring myself everytime i take the herbs I just knock em back and go on with my day.
I remember when I started taking the herbs I kept saying to myself this is going to take time, this is going to take time, over and over, so I was setting myself up for the long haul and wasnt going to get disappointed if i didnt feel effects immediately from the herbs, again it's what Coppersocks says about nudging yourself over the months in the right direction, for me this is proving to be true.
thanks jimmy.
one thing I was wondering is cdnuts.. when we fully recover if we choose to cycle andro after fully recovered like this do you get even further baseline improvement? eg) after 100% if u do a cycle will u get 103%? lol become the ultimate man at 200% to make up for lost time...
- - - Updated - - -
I love this comment. And like i said before, i love your enthusiasm. Well ive talked to cdsnuts in some private messages, and he basically says he feels even better than he did pre-PFS. I would only hope to be this ultimate man at %200 to make up for lost time. I would keep cycling even after healing from pfs myself personally.
update
my symptoms leftover are not even that bad
now all i have left is = my face is a bit puffy, im only 33$% as horny as i used to be but it's fine cuz i can just use the time doing other stuff, i wakeup 1-2 times a night for 10 minutes, not as sharp/driven, and i bit more anxious/moody. Also i'm not as sharp cognitively. I was able to juggle more things in my head at a time but that has improved as well.
I'd gauge i'm about 75% overall. If progress continues like this I think I can realistically fully recover by April. Exactly 1 year since I took that dose of RU58841. Let's hope my parents don't cockblock my prohormone shipment as they are weary from any of purchases from the internet as that's how I got myself into this mess through an internet product. lol
Been listening to health podcasts everyday and adding new tricks to my regimen. The more things we do to build health the more we can snowball and quicken the healing. New addition = putting eggs inside my coffee with collagen, ceylon cinnamon, ginger, cacao. Tastes greats just be sure to sift the eggs with a spoon cuz otherwise it just tastes flemmy. cudos Dave Asprey
last night was a bit annoying. Was with a chiliean chick from tinder and I was fucking her missionary no problem but when she wanted to go on top I lost my boner lol. I ate her out and then regained to fuck her doggy and had a really lacklustre orgasm. I think it's a mix of anxiety too because I get nervous that my boner won't be sufficient for her to ride it lol. I didn't use Arginine though as I didn't care if I made her a regular girl or not and was willing to botch the sex. If she was hotter though I would have taken precautions. Also it was car sex which isn't the most comfortable cuz she lives with her parents and wasn't willing to travel to me in the middle of the night.
been a mini roller coaster with symptoms. Sleep almost restored then had some dips. Got a possibly new hottie in my rotation. Kinda sucks cuz I can't get FULLY hard when she's on top. lol still able to do my other go 2 positions at least though and she was down to hangout for a second time at least and she def wants to chill again. Told her about my situation as well and she's super supportive and confident in my full recovery.
I'm happy that my sleep is almost close to normal, this has a dramatic improvement in my mood. Wakeup between 1-3 times a night. Average is 2 but I'm able to fall asleep relatively quickly.
I think I don't respond well to maca as I notice my erection quality is in the shitter on maca days... think maxout didn't respond well to maca either. All the herbs though I think either help or at least pose no problems. Sucks cuz maca is one of my favourite tasting ones.
one or two more weeks in the gym and my lifts will be same as pre-cleanse.
thinking of doing my first prohormone cycle in december. should I add creatine and 5adp before then or throw that in after cycle?
i'm curious for recovery... is the % each month ground gained go up steadily, exponentially, or are the last few bits stubborn? I feel like I've been stuck at 70-75% a lot longer than the first few percentages lol.
My thoughts. Optimistically = recovery is exponential because once you get a decent amount of recovery % sleep, mood etc. it speeds it up.
Or it's just 3-17% each month steadily.
Or the last 25% is most stubborn. From what I read from maxout at least he got like 15% in the last month as I recall he said he was 85% and then the next month was recovered. I'm having little pockets of time where things are almost completely back to normal. All symptoms except that 'hole in my head' feeling. Though at one point I had head pressure at two points in my head early in my crash, now it's just that one persistant point deep behind my right eye.
also cd speaks of other guys that are bit less well known of our generation of recoveries that have recovered. I'd be curious to read their stories as well. Before there was a specific pfs subforum.
Entropy was one of them that was there during the transition. There's also freepress who crashed from fenugreek. Thanksgiving I think fully recovered as well. And I'm sure there's some more posters as well. I fiend this stuff and I have a sticky note of 100 recoverers from pfs on a sticky pad to help build belief. (Though they aren't all through complete natural methods)
Sometimes I'm scared because I crashed from something that only like 4-5 other people in the world crashed from RU58841. I'm grateful to cd and you guys for welcoming me to this wonderful community and supporting me. Though I've made great strides, I actually think I was the worst of the worst. Not only did I have every symptom in the book but I also had additional convulsions 2 nights after I crashed. Still not sure if I suffered some form of stroke or epilepsy. Though I'm sure the cat scan would have picked that up. I had absolutely no REM sleep and now I'm dreaming like a baby via ziziphus.
Thinking of adding some nootropics from liftmode to my regimine and rotate them like herbs eg) oleadamide, huperzine-a etc. wonder cd's take on this? recall him saying that he wanted to add nootropics to totalmaleoptimization.
had a really strong coffee today and gunna hit downtown to pickup some girls cause saturdays are the best in my city :P
Well you certainly don't have any problem grabbing tail, do you? Lol.
Listen, don't worry so much about percentages and timelines. It's just going to end up letting you down because of the natural ebb and flow of the healing cycle.
You're coming along nicely, and quickly to boot. Just keep doing what you're doing, stop worrying about what you used to get you in this situation. EVERYTHING is fixable.....everything.
Just keep at it dude. I know you might not be where you were, but you're still pulling chicks and having sex. That's more then most guys in your situation can do. Look at the positives and be thankful for them....always. Gratitude goes a long way towards recovery.
You'll get there. You're already getting there. Keep at it.
shit. the artichoke extract I have has milk thistle in it which apparently is an anti-androgen? was using the nature's way brand.
bizbee had like a crash from that? I think I shouuuld be okay but gunna bin it for sure.
on the positive. removing it might speed up my recovery further ^.^
today got a pituitary glandular, wanted to try it out.
also got cogni-q which is coenzyme q10 and pqq which boosts mitochondria
weird ass sleep downswing last night. preceded by the best sleep I had post-crash.
2 nights ago = slept full just one wakeup bathroom and fell asleep quickly after.
last night = 3 wake ups but the 3rd wake up took 3 hours to fall asleep again so did a bit a holosync.
things I did different = drop the milk thistle, added beta alanine, dropped pine pollen tincture daily (rotate weekly now), added con-creatine. It was also catauba bark day.
Hopefully it's just a coincidence or short down swing. Strange I haven't had that bad sleep since early September.
Good news. I woke up with raging wood and libido. I contacted all the people who sell androsterone and saw who can bring it to Canada, so i'm going to order from the guy who messaged me back first. I would get from Rob but it appears sold out from his store for now and also I don't know if he has a success rate into getting it into Canada. They don't even allow pregnenalone here. I got it from my doctor.
Was ahead of schedule today so I decided to write up what I’m currently doing to recover so I can use it as a template for a recovery post eventually and let people see if there’s anything I’m doing that maybe I should stop using.
Used Chi’s recovery post as a bit of a template. Essentially following cdnuts protocol + additions that other guys have used like Maxout, Tubzy, English et al.
Morning Supplements
1. Shilajit
2. Vitamin B6
3. Vitamin B12
4. L-Tyrosine
5. Adrenal glandular
6. Beta Alanine (Still testing if I want to keep this in on training days)
7. NAC
8. Grapefruit Seed Extract
9. Lion’s Mane
10. Chlorella (cell wall broken)
11. Con-creatine
12. Pregnenalone
13. Vitamin C
14. Gotu Kola
15. Cdnuts herbs (all of them except Maca on a 7 day rotation)
16. Thorne extra nutrients
Evening Supplements
1. Niacin 500mg
2. Niacinamide 500mg
3. Vitamin D3 + K2 1000UI + 120 mcg x 4
4. Bacopa
5. L-Carnitine
6. L-Taurine
7. Boron
8. Cogni-q (PQQ + Coenzyme Q10)
9. Pituitary Glandular
10. L arginine 5-6 grams like once a week if I really want to fuck a girl well.
Sleep Supplements
1. Glycine (10 grams)
2. Ziziphus
3. Passionflower tincture
4. Skullcap tincture
5. Phosphotideserine
6. Magnesium Glycinate
7. Melatonin 3mg
8. L-Theanine
Diet
Everything is organic and fresh.
Been using spring water for 90% of all water I use now. Get an 18L barrel since cleansing.
Breakfast
1. Coffee (Ginger, Cacao, Ceylon Cinnamon, Collagen)
2. Eggs (Pastured Organic)
3. Organic Grass Fed Skim Milk
4. Orange/Pineapple/Grapes/apples/misc other fruits
5. Lemons in Water
6. kefir
Post Workout
1. Whey Protein Concentrate (Organic /Pastured)
2. Goji Berries
Big Evening Feast
1. Salad = Celery, Parsley, onions, white mushrooms, romaine, tomatoes, carrots, kimchi, cranberries(obviously use other veggies too depending on what the stores have)
2. Steamed Veggies = Brocolli, Kale.
3. Grass fed butter
4. Olive oil (ass dressing)
5. Spices = pink salt, sea salt, black pepper, turmeric, garlic, onion, parlsey, oregano
6. Tea = Banana peel chamomile, greek herbal tea, Ceylon cinnamon, ginger
7. Meat = Haddock, Cod, Alaskan Salmon (all fish wild), beef liver, mussels, bison, venison, oysters.
8. Carbackloading carbs = white jasmine rice, sweet potatoe, buckwheat, sorghum seeds, ice-cream
9. Shake = Milk, Eggs, Pine Pollen Powder, Berries, Banana, Raw Honey, coconut oil, coconut butter
10. Yoghurt
My Symptoms
1. Low body temperature at times
2. Facial Changes (bloated, eye bags, rounder)
3. Poor memory (almost gone)
4. Poor focus (gone)
5. Long refractory period (almost gone)
6. Low stress tolerance (almost gone)
7. Poor erections (almost gone but not hard enough for girl on top at times)
8. Low libido
9. Anhedonia (Gone)
10. Insomnia /poor sleep (greatly improved but not normal yet)
11. Shrunken Balls (Gone)
12. Personality Change (My personality is pretty much back)
13. Shortness of breathe (gone)
14. Anxiety/panic attacks (gone but anxiety sometimes comes back)
15. Muscle spasms (gone)
16. Low drive for life (gone)
17. Nausea (gone)
18. Testicle pain (gone)
19. Mood swings (gone)
20. Head pressure / hole in head feeling (the most persistent symptom)
Exercise
1. Weights 3 x a week with at least 1 day off in between (squats, deadlifts, incline bench, sprints, + a super set of lotsa other things.
2. Yoga once a week just 20 minutes
3. Holosync + lotus sutra meditation daily + head stands and prayer.
Lifestyle
1. I do everything cdnuts says to do on totalmaleoptimization = cold showers, skin brush, avoiding xenoestrogens, breathing exercises, bathmate, sun tanning, no fap, cleanse (10 days water + 4 day juice feast)
2. Grounding pad when playing fifa
3. Music
4. Reading
5. Comedy
6. Picking up girls
7. Flux app / blue blockers at night
8. Avoiding unpleasant people when possible
9. Being with positive people when possible
10. Forest walks virtually daily.
11. Gratitude
12. Podcasts
13. Watching Soccer
14. Goal setting
15. Self cognitive behaviour therapy = reframing / perspective / things that went well today etc.
16. Sleep with pink noise, bose noise cancellation headphones, and blackout curtains, use sleep cycle app to wake up at non-deep sleep time frame.
Next steps I might/will make
1. 5adp
2. Androsterone
3. Red light therapy
4. 23andme
5. Huperzine A
6. Deer placenta
7. Lithium orotate
8. Icarin from liftmode
9. Tudca
10. Vitamin b2
slept like a baby last night. according to sleep cycle just one wake up and hour before my actual wake up and quickly went back to sleep.
i think it might have been cause i ate too much before bed. better to not eat 2-3 hours before bed. I knew that but I didn't eat a lot that day so was stuffing my face late onto the night lol.
damn bro, how did you acquire all those supplements and items so quickly? lol
i loved some of your lifestyle habits. especially avoiding unpleasant people when possible. when you get on the protocol, alot of times you will end up doing these things instinctively, as if youre not even trying to do them. This just happens because of the state of mind youre in. it feels so natural.
fuck. my sleep went back to being shit tonight as well. a bit alarming cause I haven't slept this bad since early sept or august maybe... I think the milk thistle seed that was in my artichoke extract might have caused it.. I stopped taking it for like a week now after I found it can be anti-androgen.
very similar to how I reacted to ru58841. stopped it and felt an increase in baseline and then swinging back and forth to great to shit each day. also had a strange headache before my sleep regressed.
should I do another cleanse or just stick to next steps in the protocol?
You should simply do the protocol as outlined. You'll save yourself so many back and fourths by doing this. And no, no need to do another cleanse. And don't mind my tone....I'm just aggravated as I have a bunch of people reaching out for me because they're having issues and of course, once I do some digging, the reason for those issues is they're trying to re-invent the wheel by adding other things in, using things that aren't recommended and then they're wondering why they're having issues.
Listen...you can't make this go any faster then it's naturally going to go. That's it. bottom line. It takes however long it takes. All you guys need to do is SHOW UP, and do what is outlined. THAT'S IT.
Sounds good to me CD. Thanks for looking out for me. I get frustrated too when I see people are drinking/eating junk/drugs. Even though my supplementation is done from the name of recovery which imo is more in the right direction I should really be more vigilant. Not gunna add anything else to the protocol from now on besides Androsterone and 5adp. Will also subtract the supplements that aren't in the protocol. My baseline is still way higher than initial crash (it was like negative 10% I almost lost my will to live) so must stay positive.
Just that I oscillated from being like 85-80% for a while back down to like 70-75%.
Hey, maybe even after taking the milk thistle out i'll progress even faster :)
Milk thistle can be good for the liver but it also lowers blood sugar rather quickly. I learned that the hard way. When I started taking it I would get shaky, anxious and felt like I was going to pass out. Did some research and learned I was tanking my blood sugar after I ate. IMO, there is a better liver supplement which I take before and after I drink, which is http://amzn.to/2A1QZxu. It used to be called Liv52. This formulation doesn't have milk thistle in it.
That being said, if you're swinging up to 85%, that's fantastic. Just stick to the plan and you'll be there before you know it. It's silly to cause yourself any set backs at all when you don't have to.
just got some leh gotu, lion's mane, and bacopa because of the sale.
are these to be taken daily or are they best cycled like other herbs? I've been doing it daily but cycling always make my wallet happy too lol. my health is number 1 tho so if daily is better will stick to daily.
also cd u only list bacopa on totalmaleoptimization unno if u did that on purpose or not but i think u do recommend lions mane and gotu as well so might as well put links there too no?
got my hands on super r-andro rx from IML Super R-Andro Rx IronMag Labs
wanted to get it before christmas delays in shipping etc. plan on cycling it Dec 1st for 6 weeks. About 2.5 months after my cleanse. I've regained all my strength that I had before the fast and cycling herbs before and after my cleanse for about 4 months total.
cd told me 'That's still too fast. I would go 100mg/twice a day for the first week. Build slowly from there.'
so game plan = 1st day 100mg. Then 100mg/twice a day for first week. Then bump to 300mg second. Then 400mg third. Possibly bumping to 500/600mg if no negative effects are seen.
Hey Jacknap. I see your from Canada ? Me too !
Any issue getting the super r-andro rx up here. Did you have it shipped?
no issues. What I did I just emailed all the retailors and I bought from the most responsive and helpful one asking if they have success shipping here. Obviously isn't going to be the cheapest but if we're ordering in Canada customer service is number 1 priority so u dont get screwed out of hundreds of dollars.
Good luck with your run on R Andro man! I’m planning a run on this soon.