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You should be fine. I cut the timeline short between between my third and fourth cycle, and considered myself recovered after my fourth. Of course, YMMV, but wanted to throw my experience in for what it's worth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnover25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxout777
That makes me feel much better, was a little worried I may be pushing myself too hard. I did like 12 weeks on last time, did 7 off, now I’m aiming for 8. But can always stop if I feel too shitty.
Yeah, always go by feel. Keep in mind, I was running 4 Andro as well in both of those cycles which is much more suppressive (still lighter vs AAS, however) than R Andro/Epi-Andro which you're running solo. I had two compounds "beating me down".Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnover25
Good point. Why run the 4 Andro then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxout777
Mitigate low estrogen. My second cycle of R Andro beat me down in the end as I struggled with low estrogen in PFS. Saw Palmetto (my poison of choice), inhibits aromatase as well as acting as a progestin/5ARI (such as fin), so a lot of us suffer the opposite of a lot of you guys - low estrogen instead of high. DHT pro-hormones kill estrogen for people like I was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnover25
Funny, because the time I ran ultra hard last year, years after recovery, I had no issues with this.
Interesting. I did get hormone test that showed sky rocketing estrogen, but then again all of my hormones had skyrocketed. Maybe showing my body wasn’t actually using the hormones and just passing them out. But literally every Estrogen level had skyrocketed where my other hormones were kinda scattered. So I’d imagine that’s a pretty accurate depiction of my E.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxout777
Also wanted to ask what you think, how bad is alcohol as a setback? I’ve had a lot of life changes lately and moved to Colorado, been meeting new friends and having fun and drinking more than I should have in the past 2 months. I plan to cut it out fully and go sober now for a long time, mainly just because I don’t want to drink anymore anyways. Not sure how far this could have potentially set me back.
I will say that 2 years ago, my body handled alcohol much worse than it does now.
I'll shoot you a PM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnover25
Day 2 of cycle, libido is very high. Also just in a great mood
Currently sick for the 2nd time in 2 months. Before this it’s been like 2 years, not including my fever I got when I crashed
Feeling extreme mental clarity today, just really content, happy with life. At work in my office just vibing, looking out the window, enjoying my life. Feel like I did when I was a young, carefree kid.
Haven’t felt this way in far too long, sad that I had to miss out these past couple of years, but once this returns for good I’ll be willing to put it all behind me.
Keep pushing boys
Pretty sure I started this cycle a bit premature, starting to experience some intense crash like symptoms reminiscent of the old days. Gonna try to push through the tough part to the end of my cycle, I feel like I’ve been through the absolute worst this thing has to offer and I’m just not afraid of it anymore.
If it becomes crystal clear to me that I shouldn’t push forward I’ll end my cycle a few days early, but if not then I’m just gonna finish. Only like 10 days left.
I’ve learned to appreciate downswings because they remind me of how bad things used to be and how far I’ve come
Turnover have you started feeling herbs when you are not on cycle.I don’t feel them now but when I tried them initially after crash I got raging sensation down there for sometime after following protocol for like 14 days.
It’s hard to say since I’ve been taking them for like a year and 8 months, I don’t know what to compare it toQuote:
Originally Posted by Ravmeena
Ended my cycle, feeling like shit. Spent 4 out of the past 6 months on prohormones, gonna take a nice 4-5 month break from them and work to get my test and estrogen up, do another fast, and implement a few more things that I want to try such as no electronics after 9 pm, quitting caffeine, etc.
Keep pushing
Wow. For future reference, when cycling, time on, should always equal time off. I know sometimes it's tempting to stay on, but that defeats the point of the whole protocol. Not to mention the cycles work better when you don't go longer then 8 weeks per clip. 8 weeks back on the herbs, then you can cycle again. I wouldn't wait 4-5 months for your next cycle. I would do it again in say 10 weeks. This time stick to the proper timeline.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnover25
You'll get there.....
Yeah man, tempting is a good way to describe it haha. Pushed it a bit too hard, learned what I can and can’t handle. Starting to feel a bit better now though. Just felt very run down and depressed. Didn’t seem to get much out of my 4th cycle just because I started before I was ready. Huge difference between starting at the right time or not. I’ll shoot for 10 weeksQuote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
Feeling a little better now that I have been off the prohormones for about a week, not sure if I got a lot of benefit from that last cycle because I started so early, but my body just started dreaming naturally again.
I’ve made some serious strides in the past year in spite of eating sugar/sweets often, drinking alcohol, caffeine, processed foods, not all the time but more than I’d like to admit. I am just hellbent on getting rid of my brain fog now, it’s not as bad but still hasn’t lifted. Here’s the new additions on top of the protocol-
No alcohol
No sugar (besides fruits)
No red meat (brain fog)
No grains
No high GI carbs (due to brain fog) only bananas and things like that
No caffeine (brain fog, but have wanted to give this up for years)
Eat plenty of sauerkraut and shit like that
Paleo diet aiming at foods good for the thyroid, ie no cruciferous veggies, which make me feel like shit
Basically following a diet that is along the same lines as Japanther and Mitch, who were both sufferers of the same shit as me, who managed to beat it.
No electronics after 9, bed by 10:30
No social media
Intermittent fasting, eating window noon-8
Gonna do another water fast here soon, and probably a dopamine fast just to see what that’s all about. Basically gonna sit in my apartment and stare at a wall for 2 days straight, take walks, etc.
Things I’m left stuck with-
Brain fog/neurological bs (aka bad short term memory, dizzy spells, vision, disconnect)
Anhedonia (I think it’s improving)
Libido
Dry skin
Could be more? Idk. Those are the only ones I notice
Edit: I’m also not in a horrible place anymore. Recently moved to Denver, Colorado, and I work as an accountant. I’ve taken huge strides from where I came from, which was being completely unable to function. But it’s time to finally beat this shit
And you will......the last part is always the longest and hardest because you're close enough to know you can feel normal again but you're just not quite there yet....Just keep doing what you were doing. (Except the alcohol and party favors, because believe me, they're doing you NO favors)Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnover25
And you get benefit from every cycle whether you feel it or not. Some cycles are more "behind the scenes" and some are in your face. Either way things are happening biologically regardless of the state you're in. That being said, they will run you down if you're not on top of it.
If you're that hell bent on getting rid of the brain fog, you really should be sober for a few months....it makes that much of a difference. If you have to do something, well you're living in the perfect state for it!
You got this.
Out of curiosity, where did you move from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnover25
Hey man, I'm glad to hear that you're doing much better. Keeping it short, keeping it rolling:Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnover25
Booze, probably not a good idea.
Caffeine cleared my fog for maybe an hour, like nicotine, and then it would come back with a vengeance later on in the day. I only drink it occasionally now, and I seem to tolerate it much better as long as it's with food and it's not a double shot. I'd drop it for a while and see how it goes, or dial it back and try eating before you drink it. You know the drill.
No grains, no sugar, no high GI shit, all smart choices. Ripe bananas are high GI, but I wouldn't worry about them. You can temper your body's glucose response by including protein and certain fats with your carbs. I've fucked around with a glucometer before and tried this out. It's also been studied, clinically and n=1, by well reputed researchers like Dom D'agostino. If you're worried about keeping your blood sugar down, go for 10-30 minute post-meal walks. Walking is seriously underrated, I think a 30 minute walk a day should be protocol.
I've met other people who claim that they struggle with red meat, and I don't want to dismiss your own experience with it, but I think it has played a crucial role in my own recovery. I eat more red meat than any other type of meat, at least once, if not twice, a day. It's not just the bioavailable nutrients within, it's the ratios of the nutrients, and the presence of so many different cofactors, that I think is really important to your health. I would really reconsider cutting this out. That being said, I do spend a lot of cash on my meat, as I only go for grass-fed/finished for the reasons that I listed above, as well as the absence of grains and certain fats in conventionally raised meat. I would also include like 4-6 oz of beef/chicken liver every other day if you can stomach it. It took a while to acclimate to it, but now my body craves it. I got my mom on that train too, and she says the same thing. I don't think high cholesterol is bad in certain contexts, but for those who are wondering, mine is still in the normal range. HDL is around 55 and LDL is like 110. Trigs are 50. I always eat fibrous veggies with meat out of habit, and I've read before that certain fibers will actually bind to the cholesterol and hinder absorption in the gut (not that you necessarily want to do that).
I reduced my intake of cruciferous veggies too. I still eat steamed broccoli, cauliflower rice, and sautéd purp cabbage, but I don't throw chard, kale, and spinach in a blender anymore. I can't really say if this has helped, but my bloodwork is better and I'm not nutritionally deficient in anything.
The only thing that I would add, cause I know you like your gluten-free processed shit, is to avoid that. It's marginally better at best. Most of them contain seed oils too, and at the risk of coming across like another dude who stumbled across CarnivoreMD, I do think that processed seed oils are detrimental to human physiology and should be eliminated from the food chain.
Send me a pm if you want me to walk you through my eating habits. I feel like I have them dialed, and I know it's really helped me overcome this.
All the best, we'll have to grab a drink at union station once this is behind us.
When you're on the prohormones do those symptoms go away?Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnover25
Thanks for the support as always. I got ahead of myself the past 4 months or so, the move was a big one. I started meeting all New people, doing all new things, and the prohormones had me feeling great all the time so I started drinking and letting loose, I think it might have been needed because I had a lot of fun, but now I had my fun and I’m really starting to buckle down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdsnuts
I agree with the cycles, even though I felt run down and that I didn’t get anything out of it, I’m now dreaming consistently again, every single night, after this last cycle. I thought anhedonia was lifting but I haven’t had any sparks of emotions in a few weeks, that one is so tricky.
Also, I came from West Michigan. I grew up about 30 min from Lake Michigan. If you’ve never been, I recommend. The beaches are amazing and it’s a nice quiet place.
- - - Updated - - -
Sometimes, it’s give or take. My brain fog has seen alot of improvements, and there’s been times on cycle where I can think very clearly, but the entire state of it has never lifted entirely yet. It’s hard to explain. It’s not just that my memory is bad, it’s a slew of multiple neurological symptoms dealing with memory, motor function, vision, decision making, senses. Hard to explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by MungYarlon
Anhedonia improves while on cycles, emotions flicker and spark. Haven’t stuck yet though.
Libido definitely improves. Dry skin I haven’t noticed improvement in a while
Don’t want to jinx anything, but as of the past week or so my anhedonia feels like it’s lifting. Feeling more emotions and more normal, might finally be experiencing the SnapBack from my previous 2 cycles. I’ll update if I notice anything else.
Keep pushing boys!
@Cdsnuts do you think doing a 2 day water fast will have benefits? Been wanting to do a little reboot while I have a couple days off
It depends how clean you are. This is what I mean. When you start a water fast, it typically takes the body three days to get into the deep cleaning state. If you start a fast and stop after two days, you could stop the fast right as waste is emptying into your blood stream to be processed out. So again, it depends how clean you are. I'd say that a two day juice feast would be the better option because of the length of timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Turnover25
You would get more benefit from the juice feast.
Day 6 of UltraHard stacked with Alpha Four, I feel literally no effect
Dude this is so strange. I stopped a UH cycle 2 weeks in last month after not feeling it for the first time. Is there a chance UH has weakened the dose?Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnover25
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It’s super weird that we have both responded really well to it in the past and suddenly felt no effect. How can that be?
Not sure man, anyone have any ideas?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooks
If anything I feel like it’s making me worse, I think I’m going to drop the Four.
Can we loop in Rob or something to confirm UH potency has stayed the same compared to earlier in the year? I just find it so odd you and I didn’t feel anything. Is your UH bottle new? I thought it was just me until I saw you say the same thing
Let me get back to you once I’ve been on the Alpha Four for a few days, I feel like that’s the problem. I didn’t use it today and I feel a little better, might be placebo of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooks
Definitely let me know how that goes. Hoping it was just a fluke for us. It would be weird if UH suddenly lost its potency, I guess? I have a cycle starting next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnover25
What's the deal with this???Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooks
Been taking Allopreg from iconic for almost a week, I feel incredible, slightly euphoric. Gave me anxiety at first.
Edit: Sorry I meant IdeaLabs