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Thread: Differences between R-DHEA and Super Epi DHEA

  1. #1
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Differences between R-DHEA and Super Epi DHEA

    Hello Nostrum.

    So I was hoping you can differentiate between these two compounds for me and others on the board who may need clarification.

    They both convert to DHT, but there are obvious chemical differences between them.

    Do they convert to different types of DHT?

    I'm not 100% clear on what the differences are, but there are apparent differences in function and "feel"

    Thanks!
    If you are persistent, you will get it. If you are consistent, you will keep it.

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    I assume the R-DHEA is the alpha isomer and super-Epi-DHEA is the beta isomer.

    The beta isomer tends to promote energy and aggression whereas the alpha gives a calm feeling.

    I think the hormones you've mentioned have esters attached, but that won't make a huge difference... Once you're body cleaves the esters the only difference between the two hormones is the positioning of the 3-OH. The two different positions alpha vs beta cause the differences in feel. However, regardless of the a vs b position the 3-OH will metabolize into a 3-ketone. Once this happens they both turn into exactly the same molecule: androstan-dione there are no isomers of that hormone molecule. Androstan-dione then metabolizes into DHT.

    There aren't different kinds of DHT ... naturally...

    DHT is the 17-beta alcohol isomer. Technically it's possible to have a 17-alpha isomer but it's very difficult to synthesize 17a-hydroxyls due to other features of the androgen skeleton.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostrum420 View Post
    I assume the R-DHEA is the alpha isomer and super-Epi-DHEA is the beta isomer.

    The beta isomer tends to promote energy and aggression whereas the alpha gives a calm feeling.

    I think the hormones you've mentioned have esters attached, but that won't make a huge difference... Once you're body cleaves the esters the only difference between the two hormones is the positioning of the 3-OH. The two different positions alpha vs beta cause the differences in feel. However, regardless of the a vs b position the 3-OH will metabolize into a 3-ketone. Once this happens they both turn into exactly the same molecule: androstan-dione there are no isomers of that hormone molecule. Androstan-dione then metabolizes into DHT.

    There aren't different kinds of DHT ... naturally...

    DHT is the 17-beta alcohol isomer. Technically it's possible to have a 17-alpha isomer but it's very difficult to synthesize 17a-hydroxyls due to other features of the androgen skeleton.
    Well damn...aren't you handy to have around....lol.

    It seems have you been extremely under utilized over here?

    Okay, so then regardless of the isomer, the end result is DHT, but differences in the isomer account for the different feel of the hormone. So then actually does that mean that the hormone is being utilized before it turns into DHT because of the feelings given by the different isomers? Because if we would just feel the end result, or the target hormone, then we would just be feeling DHT, not the differences caused by the alpha or beta isomer, correct?
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    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0 Strong_Guy_'s Avatar
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    Good discussion here. The two stacked is great for me, that's what I'm currently doing, best of both worlds. Epiandro (b-isomer) alone and I can get a bit too aggressive and have a short fuse, especially at higher dosages. Androsterone balances it out well though. I feel like I get more of a strength boost too with the a-isomer.

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    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm finding that out myself right now. Thing is, I was never able to tolerate epi in oral form. Made me feel like complete shit...lethargic, moody, no libido...the exact opposite of what it was supposed to do.

    Rob sent me some Stano TD to run, and I'm actually enjoying it! I'm stacking it with R andro, which I love. The two together just give me a more balanced feel, is the best way I can put it.

    I'm surprised there is such a difference between oral and transdermal administration of the compound, but there most certainly is. With this new found knowledge, it makes me want to give the new transdermal androhard a go.
    If you are persistent, you will get it. If you are consistent, you will keep it.

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    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0 bighulksmash's Avatar
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    Awesome point nuts .Nostrum definitely knows his stuff!!
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    Established Member Feedback Score 0 TubZy's Avatar
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    I have been talking to haidut on and off about epi andro. I'll just copy/paste his response.

    "Epiandrosterone is the 5b-isomer of androsterone. The 5b isomers are typically much weaker than the 5a ones and often are more estrogenic too. In the case of epiandrosterone, it is an actual agonist of the estrogen receptor beta, and is a very weak aromatase inhibitor compared to androsterone. It is also a much weaker agonist of the androgen receptor. Finally, the studies that used both epiandrosterone and androsterone to test their metabolism showed that androsterone readily converts into DHT, 5a-androstanedione, and epiandrosterone while epiandrosterone only converted to androstanediol and 5b-androstanedione but no DHT.
    TLDR: epiandrosterone compares to androsterone similar to how how 5b-DHT compares to 5a-DHT. The latter is the real deal, the formed is a weaker metabolite. The 5a-steroids is where it's at for men and androsterone is a 5a-steroid while epiandrosterone is a 5b-steroid."
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    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TubZy View Post
    I have been talking to haidut on and off about epi andro. I'll just copy/paste his response.

    "Epiandrosterone is the 5b-isomer of androsterone. The 5b isomers are typically much weaker than the 5a ones and often are more estrogenic too. In the case of epiandrosterone, it is an actual agonist of the estrogen receptor beta, and is a very weak aromatase inhibitor compared to androsterone. It is also a much weaker agonist of the androgen receptor. Finally, the studies that used both epiandrosterone and androsterone to test their metabolism showed that androsterone readily converts into DHT, 5a-androstanedione, and epiandrosterone while epiandrosterone only converted to androstanediol and 5b-androstanedione but no DHT.
    TLDR: epiandrosterone compares to androsterone similar to how how 5b-DHT compares to 5a-DHT. The latter is the real deal, the formed is a weaker metabolite. The 5a-steroids is where it's at for men and androsterone is a 5a-steroid while epiandrosterone is a 5b-steroid."
    Well you through me for a loop with that one Tubz. How can any DHT precursor be estrogenic when the target hormone is DHT, which by all means, is ANTI estrogenic? I've never heard of this before?
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    Established Member Feedback Score 0 TubZy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Well you through me for a loop with that one Tubz. How can any DHT precursor be estrogenic when the target hormone is DHT, which by all means, is ANTI estrogenic? I've never heard of this before?
    Here is another response from him, although it may not directly answer your question, which I may check up on as well. I honestly don't think it is a big issue when epiandro is paired with androsterone. I think it could be a bigger problem when epiandro is alone, again not confirmed though. So i'm not too worried about epi in regards to it being in the andro hard topical, IMO.

    "I am not aware of any studies showing epiandro having better energetic or stimulating effects. If they can provide some studies that would be aswesome. There is a reason epiandro is so much cheaper than andro - it is less effective. Patrick Arnold said the same thing in one of his posts which you can probably find via Google - i.e. andro is where it's at and epiandro is just a poor substitute, which has been my experience as well. Not sure where their claim on using both being better is coming from. Again, epiandro is a 5b-isomer and may actually raise 5b-DHT instead of 5a-DHT. But if they have evidence I will obviously take it into account."
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    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Differences between R-DHEA and Super Epi DHEA

    Quote Originally Posted by TubZy View Post
    Here is another response from him, although it may not directly answer your question, which I may check up on as well. I honestly don't think it is a big issue when epiandro is paired with androsterone. I think it could be a bigger problem when epiandro is alone, again not confirmed though. So i'm not too worried about epi in regards to it being in the andro hard topical, IMO.

    "I am not aware of any studies showing epiandro having better energetic or stimulating effects. If they can provide some studies that would be aswesome. There is a reason epiandro is so much cheaper than andro - it is less effective. Patrick Arnold said the same thing in one of his posts which you can probably find via Google - i.e. andro is where it's at and epiandro is just a poor substitute, which has been my experience as well. Not sure where their claim on using both being better is coming from. Again, epiandro is a 5b-isomer and may actually raise 5b-DHT instead of 5a-DHT. But if they have evidence I will obviously take it into account."
    Yup....you're right....doesn't answer my question....lol

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