My journey to the promised land

[xxLUK]

Yep. Gradual return of appreciation/enjoyment for things.
One of the things that has come back for me first is that music is enjoyable to listen to again. Especially EDM. It gives me goosebumps again Whatever kind of music puts you in a good mood...blast that shit. I do it basically every morning now and its a huge mood boost.

I also went downtown for new years last night and was thoroughly enjoying being sober and just people watching lol...Random drunk girl saying I was cute, random drunk girl whipping out her tits, and today at the grocery store I got to bust a dudes car window with a rock because he locked his keys in haha

If I could give advice to anyone really down mentally (me 8 months ago) its that you still need to go out and try to live life in the same way. Doing stuff that was fun before might not be as fun but its a helllllll of a lot better than sitting alone in your room all day on your computer...even if that's what you feel like doing. (also me 8 months ago)

thanks alot man, ive only truly started paleo and other stuff. and the most noticeable part is my sleep is better and i dont feel completely annihilated when i wake up anymore, that is the first change ive seen and also i pickup on small little vibes every now and then, like the vibe you get on a warm summers day or something you kind of feed off it, i have that at times and it makes me feel human again, im 100% certain im going to recover now since ive changed up my stuff and looked into things more.

[Cdsnuts]

You're spot on about that too. I wish the first place people went wasn't a hopeless pit of "you're doomed and nothing ever gets better, I lost my wife, my career, my everything...." I mean that is just too much on a person. I too, was in that helpless state and made a post on PH right after stopping. My biggest regret was shitting myself senseless by reading that every day on the hour at work. Had such a panic attack I ended up leaving to go the ER three days in. Literally had to force myself to go to work and hated every moment of the day. That's all a thing of the past now.

Positivity would've went a long way back then and I wish I had found this site even sooner than I did. That's why I still argue with users on the other site from time to time. The constant need of undisciplined people who will not try to better themselves to disprove and put down that any recovery protocol can work, sets the new guys back who stumble upon those sites and could get started right away on recovery. I believe, and this is just my opinion, that the quicker you start the protocol after crashing/deteriorating, that it helps speed up your recovery. But unfortunately people don't start it early because all they see on the other sites is some Jack wagon who's been posting there for years telling people how it doesn't work because "he's tried it" but fails to mention he only did one or two parts of the routine. It's really annoying to me. The amount of time that guys spend trying to say that CD isn't really recovered and that alcohol or going off herbs, or straying from his diet knocks him "back into PFS" is just ASTOUNDING. I have never seen so many grown ass men try to personally attack someone or keep up with another man's affairs.

End rant.....I talk too much. So much for being concise, I was doing really well too!

Lol....they still at it huh?

Such wasted energy. it's a shame. It's probably the same five or ten guys that have been there for well over ten years....

What I don't understand, is that let's just say you could put yourself in a position to live a normal, regular life, but you had to do X,Y and Z to accomplish that. Would that mean to these guys they would rather suffer then do certain things? I don't understand the mindset? Let's just say that you HAD TO do all of these things but you got to be completely normal....from the sounds of it, it seems they wouldn't even bother? When I was stuck in PFS, I would have done ANYTHING to get back to normal......anything. Hence the creation of this program.

I didn't know if fasting or juice feasting was going to do anything...but I did it anyway. It could have only helped. I didn't know that rotating herbs or running cycles would help, but I did it anyway. I didn't have anyone to lean on that could grab me by the back of the neck and say 'LISTEN!!" This thing is beatable! it can be over come.....that would have made my journey so much easier. But easy it was not meant to be.

And in regards to starting the program as soon as you find yourself in the shit....yeah, the sooner the better. But that being said, I was in the shit for almost 8 fucking years!!! I took the poison for four of them. So, yeah, the sooner the better, but it is NEVER a lost cause.....ever. The body is amazing and will always do what it has to, to get itself back to equilibrium. If I can get back and be better then I would have been, ANYONE can.

And when you get yourself to feeling like I feel on an everyday basis, it makes no sense to me to stop. I have stopped for months at a time. I was just good old, normal Cd. Fuck that....I love being alpha. It's addicting. Feeling that musty stench of confidence soak your being....I will always be rotating something, some herb, some cycle...something. Because I CHOOSE to.

[Maxout777]

Lol....they still at it huh?

Such wasted energy. it's a shame. It's probably the same five or ten guys that have been there for well over ten years....

What I don't understand, is that let's just say you could put yourself in a position to live a normal, regular life, but you had to do X,Y and Z to accomplish that. Would that mean to these guys they would rather suffer then do certain things? I don't understand the mindset? Let's just say that you HAD TO do all of these things but you got to be completely normal....from the sounds of it, it seems they wouldn't even bother? When I was stuck in PFS, I would have done ANYTHING to get back to normal......anything. Hence the creation of this program.

I didn't know if fasting or juice feasting was going to do anything...but I did it anyway. It could have only helped. I didn't know that rotating herbs or running cycles would help, but I did it anyway. I didn't have anyone to lean on that could grab me by the back of the neck and say 'LISTEN!!" This thing is beatable! it can be over come.....that would have made my journey so much easier. But easy it was not meant to be.

And in regards to starting the program as soon as you find yourself in the shit....yeah, the sooner the better. But that being said, I was in the shit for almost 8 fucking years!!! I took the poison for four of them. So, yeah, the sooner the better, but it is NEVER a lost cause.....ever. The body is amazing and will always do what it has to, to get itself back to equilibrium. If I can get back and be better then I would have been, ANYONE can.

And when you get yourself to feeling like I feel on an everyday basis, it makes no sense to me to stop. I have stopped for months at a time. I was just good old, normal Cd. Fuck that....I love being alpha. It's addicting. Feeling that musty stench of confidence soak your being....I will always be rotating something, some herb, some cycle...something. Because I CHOOSE to.

Completely agree with everything you just said.

To put in perspective how bad I wanted to get back to normal, not long after crashing I was taking a walk with my father on the farm land my family owns and hunts on.....I was describing just how I was feeling and how shitty life was at the time, basically just to anyone I trusted enough to care. His reply was, as most old, Southern near 70 year old men are, was very sarcastic and dry, "well what extent would you go to to get out of where you are?"

To that I simply replied, "if my only cure was drinking a homeless man's piss every day, I'd show up at the shelter every morning with a thermos and a smile on my face."

As gross as that sounds, that's how damn bad I wanted it. I don't take well to being fucked over by anything.

[DrivenToRecover]

Lol....they still at it huh?

Such wasted energy. it's a shame. It's probably the same five or ten guys that have been there for well over ten years....

What I don't understand, is that let's just say you could put yourself in a position to live a normal, regular life, but you had to do X,Y and Z to accomplish that. Would that mean to these guys they would rather suffer then do certain things? I don't understand the mindset? Let's just say that you HAD TO do all of these things but you got to be completely normal....from the sounds of it, it seems they wouldn't even bother? When I was stuck in PFS, I would have done ANYTHING to get back to normal......anything. Hence the creation of this program.

I didn't know if fasting or juice feasting was going to do anything...but I did it anyway. It could have only helped. I didn't know that rotating herbs or running cycles would help, but I did it anyway. I didn't have anyone to lean on that could grab me by the back of the neck and say 'LISTEN!!" This thing is beatable! it can be over come.....that would have made my journey so much easier. But easy it was not meant to be.

And in regards to starting the program as soon as you find yourself in the shit....yeah, the sooner the better. But that being said, I was in the shit for almost 8 fucking years!!! I took the poison for four of them. So, yeah, the sooner the better, but it is NEVER a lost cause.....ever. The body is amazing and will always do what it has to, to get itself back to equilibrium. If I can get back and be better then I would have been, ANYONE can.

And when you get yourself to feeling like I feel on an everyday basis, it makes no sense to me to stop. I have stopped for months at a time. I was just good old, normal Cd. Fuck that....I love being alpha. It's addicting. Feeling that musty stench of confidence soak your being....I will always be rotating something, some herb, some cycle...something. Because I CHOOSE to.

This is no way an excuse to not work towards recovery, but I think I can shed some light on how you could get stuck in the cycle of not recovering...

1) I think guys get used to how they feel over time. I know after I was first starting the protocol for a while I wondered if I was actually getting better or was more time just passing, and allowing me to be more comfortable in this state. Some of both I think.

2) This thing is harder to overcome because the thing in and of itself puts you in a passive state that you must fight to escape. It was sooo hard at first to be assertive to this thing, but that's exactly what you have to do. People that have never dealt with much adversity previously in their lives might really struggle to push through.

just my .02...It is quite sad though.

[Cdsnuts]

This is no way an excuse to not work towards recovery, but I think I can shed some light on how you could get stuck in the cycle of not recovering...

1) I think guys get used to how they feel over time. I know after I was first starting the protocol for a while I actually wondered if I was actually getting better or was more time just passing, and allowing me to be more comfortable in this state. Some of both I think.

2) This thing is harder to overcome because the thing in and of itself puts you in a passive state that you must fight to escape. It was sooo hard at first to be assertive to this thing, but that's exactly what you have to do. People that have never dealt with much adversity previously in their lives might really struggle to push through.

just my .02...It is quite sad though.

I hear what you're saying, but imo, you NEVER get used to not having your dick work OR your mind not work for that matter.....ever. Every personal interaction, every memory, every single day you wake up, it's in your face. Every conversation that you have when the moment comes for you to make your witty quip, and nothing but blankness is in your head...these things never get easy. it's a constant reminder of your deficit. ESPECIALLY when talking to women.

If you're healing, I can tell you that it's because it's from what you're doing about it.

Believe it or not, the hardest part is the last 10-15%. At this point you can taste it....smell it....you're so close, but still far enough to piss you off. THIS is when you need to buckle down the most. At this stage, one day you will just wake up and 'HAVE IT" and it's glorious. Only for the next day to roll around and you're back in a funk. The good days will get longer and longer until the bad days just happen once in awhile....BUT STILL, you need to stay the course. Eventually you'll look back and realized you haven't had a bad day in weeks.....then months....and then it's just....gone.

You guys will all get there. As long as you're doing everything you need to be doing, it will be yours. This is FACT.

[Cdsnuts]

Completely agree with everything you just said.

To put in perspective how bad I wanted to get back to normal, not long after crashing I was taking a walk with my father on the farm land my family owns and hunts on.....I was describing just how I was feeling and how shitty life was at the time, basically just to anyone I trusted enough to care. His reply was, as most old, Southern near 70 year old men are, was very sarcastic and dry, "well what extent would you go to to get out of where you are?"

To that I simply replied, "if my only cure was drinking a homeless man's piss every day, I'd show up at the shelter every morning with a thermos and a smile on my face."

As gross as that sounds, that's how damn bad I wanted it. I don't take well to being fucked over by anything.

And for this very reason alone, I told you you were going to be fine. THAT is the mindset you need to have.

[DrivenToRecover]

I hear what you're saying, but imo, you NEVER get used to not having your dick work OR your mind not work for that matter.....ever. Every personal interaction, every memory, every single day you wake up, it's in your face. Every conversation that you have when the moment comes for you to make your witty quip, and nothing but blankness is in your head...these things never get easy. it's a constant reminder of your deficit. ESPECIALLY when talking to women.

If you're healing, I can tell you that it's because it's from what you're doing about it.

Believe it or not, the hardest part is the last 10-15%. At this point you can taste it....smell it....you're so close, but still far enough to piss you off. THIS is when you need to buckle down the most. At this stage, one day you will just wake up and 'HAVE IT" and it's glorious. Only for the next day to roll around and you're back in a funk. The good days will get longer and longer until the bad days just happen once in awhile....BUT STILL, you need to stay the course. Eventually you'll look back and realized you haven't had a bad day in weeks.....then months....and then it's just....gone.

You guys will all get there. As long as you're doing everything you need to be doing, it will be yours. This is FACT.

What do you think the process of recovery actually is? I don't think I've ever actually heard it articulated simplistically...

Raising 5ar through different pathways eventually fixes the effects of low 5ar?

[Brazilianguy]

Cd is right about the last 10-15% recovery. I got there once and I was really pissed of. In that time I was really enjoying being almost recovered, I was very alpha fucking all the girls I could lol, even some friends said to me "take it easy buddy you don't want to get a STD or something."

Then I found a protocol of 3 guys who got cured (light at the end, Elb and beekay) they were cycling herbs, doing exercises, good diet, no stress and applying progesterone cream and they thought progesterone were responsible for their recovery. Then I said why not, I started to apply and started to crash (it's a 5ari btw).

Later I started to think that their recovery wasn't the progesterone and I also achieved 75% cured once doing exactly what they did but without progesterone and then I linked all the recoveries I read on PH and many other forums, many other "syndromes" and they were basically: Diet, exercise, herbs, no stress.

All the guys who recovered did the same thing consistently over time, taking a break to make the body refresh. Just to name a few: Cdnuts, light at the end, Elb, beekay, big softie, istherehope, Hopingformore, Apr1989, Mlevyholden, multispeed27, English, Entropy (the guy that I always argued here lol), freepressright, Nate (both in swolesource) just to name a few, if I count on other forums I would put 10+ recoveries, but the point is that they did EXACTLY THE SAME PROTOCOL. When I reached 75% I was doing the exactly same protocol without even knowing.

What I'm trying to say is that all the guys who got cured they basically did the most simple and smart approach, try to do the opposite of what the pill did, they basically did everything that everybody knows is good for our body like diet, exercises, and they put the power of nature from the herbs and recovered. Our body and mind is incredible and I would also say that God put everything we need in the nature, every cure for every disease, syndrome etc. I don't know, when I got this click in my head when I achieved 75% recovered I noticed that life can give us literally everything we want and that we are so connected to the nature, to our ancestors that when we restablish this connection everything works perfectly for us.

Sorry for this huge text and a bit religious craziness but it is what it is lol.

[Cdsnuts]

What do you think the process of recovery actually is? I don't think I've ever actually heard it articulated simplistically...

Raising 5ar through different pathways eventually fixes the effects of low 5ar?

I would say it's a variety of things all coming back online.....slowly.

increased 5ar production....this increases necessary neurosteroids to combat anxiety, insomnia, namley allopregnanolone.
Increased DHT production
increased Testoserone.
Lower cortisol levels
Decreased or eliminated inflammation in the gut and brain
Strengthened nerve impulses.

The list goes on.

PFS effects so many different bodily systems it's unbelievable.

[DrivenToRecover]

I would say it's a variety of things all coming back online.....slowly.

increased 5ar production....this increases necessary neurosteroids to combat anxiety, insomnia, namley allopregnanolone.
Increased DHT production
increased Testoserone.
Lower cortisol levels
Decreased or eliminated inflammation in the gut and brain
Strengthened nerve impulses.

The list goes on.

PFS effects so many different bodily systems it's unbelievable.

It definitely does effect a lot. The gut health aspect is something that I wish was more discussed here. The juice feast helps out a lot with inflammation, but lots of people have tested positive for bacterial overgrowths/dysbiosis. Myself included. A juice feast and going paleo isn't necessarily going to fix these types of problems. SIBO, candida, ect have their own unique protocols and pfs like symptoms.

Your approach is excellent for the hormonal aspects that need to be addressed, but I think gut health (for my own case & likely others) is critical & maybe is the #1 thing that determines how the downstream effects of 5ar inhibition manifest themselves in different people.

One personal thing that supports this is that my gut was in awful shape before even starting fin. I was having bloody diarrhea 5-10 times per day, and I could tell just 2 days after quitting that I was crashing. Just 5 days after quitting was the toughest day I've had... from what I've gathered, this is a time table that is greatly accelerated when compared to most. Almost like your gut health is what props up your system and keeps it from crashing?

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.