Crashed from rogaine. Can I try TRT?

[Zonz]

I'm not saying the symptoms are made up. I'm saying that minoxidil probably didn't cause the issue.



Yeah, the symptoms from PFS/Finasteride aren't isolated to only finasteride. But just because two people report the same symptoms doesn't mean they need to same cure.


Take Erectile Dysfunction for example. What are some causes?
- High blood pressure
- Very low estrogen
- Low testosterone
- High prolactin
- Depression/stress/anxiety
- Drug use/abuse
- Metabolic Snydrome

None of these causes are going to solved by any one solution. The only way to know how to fix the symptom properly is to know what the actual cause of the malady is.



Yeah I addressed that in another post somewhere and so did Joe. One of the worst things Finasteride does is block Allopregnanolone and Isopregnanolone from being formed.

Post Finasteride syndrome, in my opinion, exposes some sort of weakness in the androgen receptor where they don’t function properly after being inhibited.

We live in a country (if you’re in the US) where there are literally endocrine disrupters in the air you breathe and the water you drink in the form of pollutants such as pesticides and neonicotinoids. Stack that with a drug that inhibits androgen receptors such as Minoxidil* along with weak androgen receptor genetics (high IQ/high immune system individuals, look into CAG repeats for an example of this correlation) and you get PFS.

*I debunked the two studies you posted but the site was down so it’s lost. In short, my studies are from 2014 and 2017 respectively while yours are from 1987 to 1999, to put time into perspective. The gains in knowledge we have on endocrine disrupters in that time frame is huge. The 2014 study directly addresses both of the studies you posted, the Syrian hamster one (which studies testosterone, not DHT or 5arII/ARs, in FEMALE rats) and the 1999 one which saw a very small increase in 5arII that could be considered negligible. The two studies I posted are very comprehensive, I’ve read the 2014 Korea one from top to bottom and it’s indisputable evidence that Minoxidil is indeed an anti androgen. It literally images the androgen receptor and how minoxidil inhibits it’s function on a micro cellular level. With my own personal experience with Minoxidil, I DO find it has an anti androgenic effect on me because my skin went pale and dry after applying and a heavy brain fog sets in almost instantly after applying.

I never took any other drug other than 5% Kirkland Minoxidil for 6 months, twice per day, although I did rub peppermint oil on my scalp once in an attempt to grow hair. My priorities were out of whack back then.

Again not trying to disrespect you but I have my suspicions you might be on Minoxidil or a similar drug, which is fine, we all have the desire to keep our hair. And maybe you have the genetics to handle the endocrine disruption. Who knows. But Min IS antiandrogen and can cause PFS since it’s applied systemically twice daily in large dosages.

[Crashed]

Post Finasteride syndrome is, in my opinion, exposes some sort of weakness in the androgen receptor where they don’t function properly after being inhibited.

We live in a country (if you’re in the US) where there are literally endocrine disrupters in the air you breathe and the water you drink in the form of pollutants such as pesticides and neonicotinoids. Stack that with a drug that inhibits androgen receptors such as Minoxidil* along with weak androgen receptor genetics (high IQ/high immune system individuals, look into CAG repeats for an example of this correlation) and you get PFS.

*I debunked the two studies you posted but the site was down so it’s lost. In short, my studies are from 2014 and 2017 respectively while yours are from 1987 to 1999, to put time into perspective. The gains in knowledge we have on endocrine disrupters in that time frame is huge. The 2014 study directly addresses both of the studies you posted, the Syrian hamster one (which studies testosterone, not DHT or 5arII/ARs, in FEMALE rats) and the 1999 one which saw a very small increase in 5arII that could be considered negligible. The two studies I posted are very comprehensive, I’ve read the 2014 Korea one from top to bottom and it’s indisputable evidence that Minoxidil is indeed an anti androgen. It literally images the androgen receptor and how minoxidil inhibits it’s function on a micro cellular level. With my own personal experience with Minoxidil, I DO find it has an anti androgenic effect on me because my skin went pale and dry after applying and a heavy brain fog sets in almost instantly after applying.

I never took any other drug other than 5% Kirkland Minoxidil for 6 months, twice per day, although I did rub peppermint oil on my scalp once in an attempt to grow hair. My priorities were out of whack back then.

Again not trying to disrespect you but I have my suspicions you might be on Minoxidil or a similar drug, which is fine, we all have the desire to keep our hair. And maybe you have the genetics to handle the endocrine disruption. Who knows. But Min IS antiandrogen and can cause PFS since it’s applied systemically twice daily in large dosages.

Yea bro. it fked me up big time, never been the same since. im wanting to do the TRT + Cdnuts protocol method, im surely ill garner some benefits

[BBG]

Post Finasteride syndrome is, in my opinion, exposes some sort of weakness in the androgen receptor where they don’t function properly after being inhibited.
you but I have my suspicions you might be on Minoxidil or a similar drug, which is fine, we all have the desire to keep our hair. And maybe you have the genetics to handle the endocrine disruption. Who knows. But Min IS antiandrogen and can cause PFS since it’s applied systemically twice daily in large dosages.

Yes I've taken minoxidil up to 10mg oral daily, along with topical applications. Along with finasteride. I'm one of the lucky few.

I stopped minoxidil though because it was raising my resting heart rate (water retention related) and I've since developed a much better PG related hair regrowth formula.

You've made me do some more digging on minoxidil and found another study showing potential 5ar inhibition from minoxidil Minoxidil Acts as an Antiandrogen: A Study of 5α-reductase Type 2 Gene Expression in a Human Keratinocyte Cell Line - PubMed

I was hoping to find another paper that mentioned 5ar and minoxidil but the only cited by paper is Effect of Oral Minoxidil for Alopecia: Systematic Review and it's just a study on oral minoxidil.

BBG...we've been tackling this here for quite sometime. Plenty of info on this forum alone to comb through.

I'm taking a look, this is the entry point for the herbs protocol right? Testosterone Boosting Supplement Rotation | Total Male Optimization

[Cdsnuts]

Yes I've taken minoxidil up to 10mg oral daily, along with topical applications. Along with finasteride. I'm one of the lucky few.

I stopped minoxidil though because it was raising my resting heart rate (water retention related) and I've since developed a much better PG related hair regrowth formula.

You've made me do some more digging on minoxidil and found another study showing potential 5ar inhibition from minoxidil Minoxidil Acts as an Antiandrogen: A Study of 5α-reductase Type 2 Gene Expression in a Human Keratinocyte Cell Line - PubMed

I was hoping to find another paper that mentioned 5ar and minoxidil but the only cited by paper is Effect of Oral Minoxidil for Alopecia: Systematic Review and it's just a study on oral minoxidil.



I'm taking a look, this is the entry point for the herbs protocol right? Testosterone Boosting Supplement Rotation | Total Male Optimization

Yes. But I developed the site so that it can be read from the first page to the very last in succession.

If interested, you could always check out the results of the protocol here: Recoveries

[Crashed]

got my bloodwork back... turns out double prolactin as a normal healthy man, very high cortisol. i was told that high prolactin can cause symptoms that emulate low T. high prolactin can actually inhibit testosterones ability to be used. so even tho my T levels r 'in range/normal' im being cucked by prolactin. i was suggested to mega dose ashwagandha (ashwagandha lowers prolactin) to lower prolactin levels and theoretically my symptoms will subside for the most part.

also my estrogen was low.

[Dude1988]

CD,

What is your opinion on DHEA?

[Cdsnuts]

CD,

What is your opinion on DHEA?

I personally never got much out of it.

[Crashed]

update: I found out my prolactin was high, so I was told ashwagdnha will lower my prolactin. I heard u gotta megadose ashwagndha to get good effects. first day i did it, i felt better, 2nd day i did it I felt destroyed and fatigued, anxiety/panic feeling and like my head was super lightheaded and i had a throbbing headache at the back of my neck around my head and my eyes felt they were going to pop out of my head and the next day same thing even at lower dose. also chest pains randomly.. it actually crashed me to an extent.


ive been off it for 4 days since and i still have this strange eye sensation, like my eyes feel really weird, like theyre watery but theyre dry and they feel they may explode out of my head but its not an intense feeling, its a feeling i cant really place... but its a feling i have not felt before until now. I notice this feeling gets worse when i drink sugar. i can only speculate has ashwagandha done something to my thyroid or affects my insulin or something? cause this is a very off feeling and i hope it goes away.

dont mean to sound dramatic but i reacted terribly to ashwagndha, its the only herb ive reacted poorly to. any advice or insight ?

should i go to the dr and ask them about it? should i take asprin daily to be on the safe side?

[Zonz]

Just do the protocol. With herbs, any negative effects come from the dosage. Too much of anything is bad. You shouldn’t be “megadosing” anything in your current state, in my opinion. Your body and brain are exposed, and maybe even a bit weak, because of Minoxidil, which I also crashed on by the way.

I would do things that make your body heal and reset itself, maybe a short fast, and some of the Wim Hof breathing exercises to see if that gets rid of your side effects over a few days. Large doses of herbs can temporarily mess with your gut bacteria which can cause issues. Once you’re recovered from the ashwaganda sides, I would start the protocol. There’s no reason not to. I feel a bit better on it already, and it’s only in the past month or so that I’ve been doing it 100%. It’s holistic.

[Crashed]

Just do the protocol. With herbs, any negative effects come from the dosage. Too much of anything is bad. You shouldn’t be “megadosing” anything in your current state, in my opinion. Your body and brain are exposed, and maybe even a bit weak, because of Minoxidil, which I also crashed on by the way.

I would do things that make your body heal and reset itself, maybe a short fast, and some of the Wim Hof breathing exercises to see if that gets rid of your side effects over a few days. Large doses of herbs can temporarily mess with your gut bacteria which can cause issues. Once you’re recovered from the ashwaganda sides, I would start the protocol. There’s no reason not to. I feel a bit better on it already, and it’s only in the past month or so that I’ve been doing it 100%. It’s holistic.

yeah i agree bro, i do think its done something to digestion so i think ur right bout that.

I’m a horrible methylator, and ashwaganda hasn’t harmed me. If it makes you feel worse, just don’t take it anymore.

You know that thing you do when you crash on fin and go read all the horror stories and freak yourself out into a massive downward spiral? That’s what you’re doing. Chillax, bin ashwaganda for now and move on.

ok fair, cheers.