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  1. #1
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    Above and beyond

    Hey guys!

    Pfs since mid april 2017, took finasteride 0,25mg twice daily for 3 weeks stopped cold turkey after strong sides: anxiety, brain fog, nipple growth/itch, muscle twitches, weight gain, puffy face, crazy high libido, slow speech, bad stress tolerance, lack of energy, sleep problems, loss of focus, confusion, personality changes, breath problems, hot rushes, emotional numbness, dizzines, fainting, stomach cramps, liver pain, food intolerance, bile pressure, roemheld syndrome. I also used nizoral and regenpuredr two dht blocking shampoos for 4 months. Crashed completly after also stopping them, by that i mean bed ridden for the whole october 2017.

    Things slowly started to get better after i forced myself to lift weights and follow a clean paleo diet again with enough rest and sleep. I am 27, 182cm, 82kg with ~ 10‰ bf. My face lost fulness and the bones are more visibel. I weightlift since 14 and follow a specific diet ever since. After 8 months of improvement that got me to like 50% i crashed hard again because of a dht blocking shampoo i used unknowingly. It threw me in the worst place ever for 6 months, also developed tinnitus during the second crash.

    As soon i was able to stand on my feet again went back to a clean paleo diet and weightlifting.
    Mid 2018 found out about this site and the protocol, since then i started everything outlined here besides going all in with androsterone. I got 7 herbs.

    My main sides that are still present at this time but noticable improved are anxiety, low energy, low confidence, tinnitus, bad sleep, lesser of a full face, smaller chawline, bad stress tolerance, low orgasm sensastion, cant hold errection long, low muscle fullnes/pump, lowish libido, anhedonia, lack of joy/happines, ever since crashing beard/body hair increased strangely.

    I had a setback last week of a big watermelon i ate, the dht blocking lycopene in it affected me bad. My eyes are dry and stiff, have body balance problems and no morning wood again.

    I tried twice 3mg androsterone and got calmness followed by a panick attack after a few hours. Can somebody relate to that?

    Will give updates here on my recovery!

  2. #2
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 RickTheRuler's Avatar
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    Above and beyond

    Finasteride, Saw Palmetto, Nizoral, Fenugreek & other meds/herbs are the only 5AR you should worry about. Not in food.. if it’s under the diet on totalmaleoptimization.com then your good. Fruit is part of paleo.. soo Watermelons are not fucking you up dude.

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  3. #3
    Established Member Feedback Score 0
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samsemilia View Post
    Hey guys!

    Pfs since mid april 2017, took finasteride 0,25mg twice daily for 3 weeks stopped cold turkey after strong sides: anxiety, brain fog, nipple growth/itch, muscle twitches, weight gain, puffy face, crazy high libido, slow speech, bad stress tolerance, lack of energy, sleep problems, loss of focus, confusion, personality changes, breath problems, hot rushes, emotional numbness, dizzines, fainting, stomach cramps, liver pain, food intolerance, bile pressure, roemheld syndrome. I also used nizoral and regenpuredr two dht blocking shampoos for 4 months. Crashed completly after also stopping them, by that i mean bed ridden for the whole october 2017.

    Things slowly started to get better after i forced myself to lift weights and follow a clean paleo diet again with enough rest and sleep. I am 27, 182cm, 82kg with ~ 10‰ bf. My face lost fulness and the bones are more visibel. I weightlift since 14 and follow a specific diet ever since. After 8 months of improvement that got me to like 50% i crashed hard again because of a dht blocking shampoo i used unknowingly. It threw me in the worst place ever for 6 months, also developed tinnitus during the second crash.

    As soon i was able to stand on my feet again went back to a clean paleo diet and weightlifting.
    Mid 2018 found out about this site and the protocol, since then i started everything outlined here besides going all in with androsterone. I got 7 herbs.

    My main sides that are still present at this time but noticable improved are anxiety, low energy, low confidence, tinnitus, bad sleep, lesser of a full face, smaller chawline, bad stress tolerance, low orgasm sensastion, cant hold errection long, low muscle fullnes/pump, lowish libido, anhedonia, lack of joy/happines, ever since crashing beard/body hair increased strangely.

    I had a setback last week of a big watermelon i ate, the dht blocking lycopene in it affected me bad. My eyes are dry and stiff, have body balance problems and no morning wood again.

    I tried twice 3mg androsterone and got calmness followed by a panick attack after a few hours. Can somebody relate to that?

    Will give updates here on my recovery!
    See a gastro dude. I didn't know roemheld syndrome was a documented thing. I had that (as well as every other symptom you described) and was only getting worse until a gastro discovered some really messed up shit in my bowel. I started improving after the first colonoscopy

    And ya, I had the exact same reaction to androsterone as you both times I used it.

  4. #4
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    Thats interesting, can i ask you how you doing these days in terms of recovery and what herbs do you like the most? I also dont tolerate mucuna and maca.

    I think i will try androsterone in a higher dose twice daily sometime in the future.

    Roemheld syndrome is going on with pfs because 5ar increases in the stomach and bile the digestive fluid to break down food! I had such strong gas it put pressure on my chest where it triggerd a nerve connected to the heart, i thought i would die a heart attack went 3 times to a cardiologist they found nothing. I didnt even know this condition existed. After a few months increasing 5ar with weightlifting it went away completly. Now again it came back slightly because of that shitty watermelon.

  5. #5
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    Good to see you Rick you are an inspiration, you gave me hope in the past with your progress and mindest.

    I would say it depends on the current baseline of someone to handel 5ar reducing foods better or worse even though its paleo. The amount of lycopene in a watermelon is by far the highest than any other food u can find especially if you consider the weight of that fruit.

    A few hours after eating it, the cramp in my prostate and pressure on the balls followed by stiches in the head of dick is something i remember from finasteride. Dry eyes are a thing when 5ar activity goes down.
    It effected me, the next days/weeks will tell how hard.

    I dont want to scare anyone but i would keep an eye on 5ar reducing food if you are not stabel yet.

  6. #6
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickTheRuler View Post
    Finasteride, Saw Palmetto, Nizoral, Fenugreek & other meds/herbs are the only 5AR you should worry about. Not in food.. if it’s under the diet on totalmaleoptimization.com then your good. Fruit is part of paleo.. soo Watermelons are not fucking you up dude.

    Welcome


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    The weight of watermelon is from the.......water.

    But yeah, for the most part fruit is not going to fuck you up man. What did you eat BEFORE you ate the watermelon?

    Reason I ask is because when I lived in the Panamanian jungle for four months, a large part of my diet was watermelon when I was on my raw food stint. The thing with foods such as that, and melons in general, is they digest super quick. If you had a typical meal before hand and then had a shit ton of watermelon, the problems that arise is the food you ate before hand is still being digested where as the watermelon is already done....this causes problems in the digestive chain of command...gas, bloating, reflux, sour stomach, etc. This is because the digested watermelon is made to "wait it's turn" and the fruit sugars start to ferment.

    Most people don't realize this when they are having fruit for dessert, or after a meal. Alot of people will say I can't eat that because it fucks me up, when in reality, the can eat it had they not eaten it after a regular meal.
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 07-12-2019 at 10:19 AM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  7. #7
    A 1k Club Member Feedback Score 0 jacknap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    This^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    The weight of watermelon is from the.......water.

    But yeah, for the most part fruit is not going to fuck you up man. What did you eat BEFORE you ate the watermelon?

    Reason I ask is because when I lived in the Panamanian jungle for four months, a large part of my diet was watermelon when I was on my raw food stint. The thing with foods such as that, and melons in general, is they digest super quick. If you had a typical meal before hand and then had a shit ton of watermelon, the problems that arise is the food you ate before hand is still being digested where as the watermelon is already done....this causes problems in the digestive chain of command...gas, bloating, reflux, sour stomach, etc. This is because the digested watermelon is made to "wait it's turn" and the fruit sugars start to ferment.

    Most people don't realize this when they are having fruit for dessert, or after a meal. Alot of people will say I can't eat that because it fucks me up, when in reality, the can eat it had they not eaten it after a regular meal.
    wouldn't that be an arguement against carb backloading then? I did feel pretty gross pounding down organic cookies and chips yesterday post gym after my regular meals
    From rock bottom to rockstar, baby.

  8. #8
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Bankai9000's Avatar
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    Ate watermelon almost daily for 4 weeks after crash. Still do often.
    The only thing you could somewhat be concerned about are maybe tomatoes. But unless you juice like 5 of them it shouldnt matter aswell.

  9. #9
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacknap View Post
    wouldn't that be an arguement against carb backloading then? I did feel pretty gross pounding down organic cookies and chips yesterday post gym after my regular meals
    Not at all.

    Fruits are natural, simple sugars. These types of sugars are basically usuable by the bodies cells as soon as they are absorbed through the mouth and tongue.

    Backloading is done with complex carbohydrates. Completely different animal.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  10. #10
    A 1k Club Member Feedback Score 0 jacknap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Not at all.

    Fruits are natural, simple sugars. These types of sugars are basically usuable by the bodies cells as soon as they are absorbed through the mouth and tongue.

    Backloading is done with complex carbohydrates. Completely different animal.
    oh damn so chips / ice cream / chocolate doesn't count for backloading? I get healthier health food store versions of these IE vanilla grass fed buffalo yogurt but I think that's closer to simple sugaar right? (I only started this now that i'm recovered before I just used white rice and sweet potatoes)
    From rock bottom to rockstar, baby.

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