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  1. #11
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 RickTheRuler's Avatar
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    I love my son and need help

    Straight up off the rip..

    Labs mean nothing., they only matter when your 100% cured.. there’s receptor things going on with pfs.. you can have high test but what does it matter if the enzymes that convert it to other things are disrupted.. or the receptors to those other things etc...so much we don’t know.. matter a fact I take all that back.. actually,I don’t know what the hell Is going on in the body.. all I know is that the 5AR enzyme got nuked and the rest is history. There are so many theories, don’t worry about the theories..

    , best thing you can do is trust the program and continue living life as best as you can. It gets better as long as he’s diligent.. the body is designed to heal itself naturally, were just giving it what it needs to do it + Time.. a fast then Exercise, supplements, herb rotation, cold showers, Andro cycles (optional) all build up & create the energy your body needs to fix itself..

    Once it’s all dialed in it’s pretty easy and it’s routine..

    The regimen on TotalMaleOptimization is not only to fix PFS.. it’s basically most health issues that a man have. It takes a bit more time with pfs cause it’s more complicated and systematic.

    Try not to make PFS this mysterious disease.. it can be overcome.. it’s just not a quick fix, and it’s not just doing one thing.. it’s a holistic lifestyle change that covers all bodily systems. Going through this process has made me a stronger person no doubt. don’t romanticize it like they do in propecia help.

    Brazil is buggin.


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    Last edited by RickTheRuler; 02-04-2019 at 03:38 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazilianguy View Post
    Thanks for calling me an idiot. I think only idiots can recognize others.

    Guys, I talked to human couple times, he told me he was feeling suicidal, Fausto told me the same and Fausto is taking ssri and it’s still recovering following the protocol. I think you guys should support more instead of just talking here. It’s not that easy to say follow the protocol and you’re ok. It’s not that simple, if a person has severe adrenal fatigue, this person will end up even worse after a fast or during a paleo diet. With adrenal fatigue some exercises will be worse for adrenals because it will increase cortisol. The rest is great for everybody.

    Jesus, Bill Nigh the bullshit guy, you've really figured this shit out haven't you? Your solution to this kid's situation is to pop a couple more pills, sit round on his ass and maybe inject some funky shit into his system? Man, what the fuck are you even doing here?
    This whole site is dedicated to following a self improvement regime designed by a guy who spent 6 years figuring out how to recover, and you don't even want to do it? No, you're also TELLING other people not to do it.
    Your weak ass toxic mentality should fuck right off to Propecia help and go find some human lab rats there.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate View Post
    I live in South America and I’m the mom of a 19-year-old that is going through an awful time starting from when he started taking finisteride 1 year and ½ ago due to hair loss which he took until a month ago when he stopped taking it. During the time while he was taking it, he was hospitalized twice with psychotic episodes and was given far too many meds and we later realized it was due to the finisteride and he had no diagnosed mental problems.

    It has truly been a rollercoaster of emotions and physical side effects of this damn drug which seems to have drained him of his self being and I am extremally worried pissed off and saddened , he used to enjoy listening to music and reading a lot of books, exercising, riding his bike, working out with weights, generally but at this time he cannot do any of this because when he does, he feels fatigued and is worse. He has a range of symptoms like the following: depression, panic attacks, loss of libido, anhedonia, chronic fatigue, less muscle and less strength, anxiety, mental fog, awaking in the night, suicidal ideations, despair, testicular pain, amongst other.

    He did feel better during 3 days where he was with enhanced mental capacities and taking interest in various areas and a little better physically.
    He is at this time taking vitamin B6, K, zinc, and magnesium citrate.
    Today he had a mini crash of some sorts, he took some tribulus pills and made him worse. The few times he has done exercise, he has felt way worse. On one occation he went to the supermarket on his bike and felt significantly worse afterwards. Why exactly does this happen? Is this some kind of androgen sensitivity in regards of androgenic herbs and exercise? If so, will this change with time?
    My question is basically how he can reactivate his 5AR enzymes and to build up his androgen levels and if there is anyone who has recovered whom I can speak to personally?,

    I fear that my son is near collapse and I don't trully know how to handle this or trully cheer him up; well more than cheering him up, I want to inspire him with someone who has personally recovered - show him that there's a way out of this hell.

    Thanks for reading guys.
    Kate, first read this sites recovery section. Your son CAN improve if he's willing to commit to getting better. Then, go to TotalMaleOptimisation and read ALL of it. Your son has to be brave and really fight to recover, but it is definitely possible.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by zardoz View Post
    Jesus, Bill Nigh the bullshit guy, you've really figured this shit out haven't you? Your solution to this kid's situation is to pop a couple more pills, sit round on his ass and maybe inject some funky shit into his system? Man, what the fuck are you even doing here?
    This whole site is dedicated to following a self improvement regime designed by a guy who spent 6 years figuring out how to recover, and you don't even want to do it? No, you're also TELLING other people not to do it.
    Your weak ass toxic mentality should fuck right off to Propecia help and go find some human lab rats there.
    I could be offensive against you too. I was just telling other recoveries, one of the recovered guys said to pay attention about exercises, too much and you will tax your adrenals. Apr1989 recovered doing a different approach, Elb, Beekay, light at the end, Hopingformore, mlevyholden, 1975, big softie, and many others. So stop trying to be a smart person when you don’t even know what you’re talking about. He said once to me that he felt worse doing weightlifting, so if this continue to happen I would say that he should try calisthenics, or even yoga.

    If your adrenals are ok, then you can do paleo diet, do heavy weight exercises, do a water fast etc. if they are not ok, then all these things I said will make him worse. The rest of the protocol he can do with no harm at all.

    I’m doing the protocol except for heavy weight exercises because I crash from them, the same with paleo diet. I take cold showers everyday, I don’t use soap, estrogenic products etc, so stop being such a jerk and try to help this guy that he will pay more attention to your help than your offensive words and also try to explain the protocol, it’s hard for people to follow someone blindly. That’s why I said to do everything that is listed and pay attention to the body reaction.

    There is one guy that is still doing the protocol but he is taking ssri because he felt he really needed, that’s something that it’s for the person to choose. I wouldn’t take them, I wouldn’t take hcg, I’m just saying what doctors will tell people to do. But I will repeat, I told the guy to do the protocol and check how his body will react. Jesus, it’s hard to understand that some people will not benefit from extreme exercises and will get cortisol problems?

  5. #15
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Durantia37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazilianguy View Post
    Thanks for calling me an idiot. I think only idiots can recognize others.

    Guys, I talked to human couple times, he told me he was feeling suicidal, Fausto told me the same and Fausto is taking ssri and it’s still recovering following the protocol. I think you guys should support more instead of just talking here. It’s not that easy to say follow the protocol and you’re ok. It’s not that simple, if a person has severe adrenal fatigue, this person will end up even worse after a fast or during a paleo diet. With adrenal fatigue some exercises will be worse for adrenals because it will increase cortisol. The rest is great for everybody.
    I shouldn't have called you an idiot, but peddling pseudoscience has serious consequences. The last thing confused, desperate people need is conflicting bullshit opinions from sources they have no way to vet. Basically everything you suggested is counterproductive. Now, how does someone new know that? They don't. So you are harming human beings with your scattershot nonsense.

    Of course you shouldn't lift heavy if you're too tired to walk to the mailbox. Anyone can figure that out. No one is saying to stop listening to your body. But you ARE saying it'sa good idea to take substances like HCG and SSRI's which are known to be harmful.

    And your (untested, unproven, untrue) notion that you can't fast with adrenal fatigue is the kind of thing that might stop someone from fasting. I don't think you realize how unethical it is to dump your bs theories on a person in need.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazilianguy View Post
    I could be offensive against you too. I was just telling other recoveries, one of the recovered guys said to pay attention about exercises, too much and you will tax your adrenals. Apr1989 recovered doing a different approach, Elb, Beekay, light at the end, Hopingformore, mlevyholden, 1975, big softie, and many others. So stop trying to be a smart person when you don’t even know what you’re talking about. He said once to me that he felt worse doing weightlifting, so if this continue to happen I would say that he should try calisthenics, or even yoga.

    If your adrenals are ok, then you can do paleo diet, do heavy weight exercises, do a water fast etc. if they are not ok, then all these things I said will make him worse. The rest of the protocol he can do with no harm at all.

    I’m doing the protocol except for heavy weight exercises because I crash from them, the same with paleo diet. I take cold showers everyday, I don’t use soap, estrogenic products etc, so stop being such a jerk and try to help this guy that he will pay more attention to your help than your offensive words and also try to explain the protocol, it’s hard for people to follow someone blindly. That’s why I said to do everything that is listed and pay attention to the body reaction.

    There is one guy that is still doing the protocol but he is taking ssri because he felt he really needed, that’s something that it’s for the person to choose. I wouldn’t take them, I wouldn’t take hcg, I’m just saying what doctors will tell people to do. But I will repeat, I told the guy to do the protocol and check how his body will react. Jesus, it’s hard to understand that some people will not benefit from extreme exercises and will get cortisol problems?
    You're a real scholar of this shit aren't you. Weird you don't mention the absolute horror stories of guys with PFS taking HCG. I'm sorry lifting weights and waiting till the PM to eat carbs is so fucking extreme for you that you've already given up. It was hard for me too when I started, but I kept going. Fuck this, I've made my point. Have fun pretending to be an endocrinologist on the internet.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durantia37 View Post
    I shouldn't have called you an idiot, but peddling pseudoscience has serious consequences. The last thing confused, desperate people need is conflicting bullshit opinions from sources they have no way to vet. Basically everything you suggested is counterproductive. Now, how does someone new know that? They don't. So you are harming human beings with your scattershot nonsense.

    Of course you shouldn't lift heavy if you're too tired to walk to the mailbox. Anyone can figure that out. No one is saying to stop listening to your body. But you ARE saying it'sa good idea to take substances like HCG and SSRI's which are known to be harmful.

    And your (untested, unproven, untrue) notion that you can't fast with adrenal fatigue is the kind of thing that might stop someone from fasting. I don't think you realize how unethical it is to dump your bs theories on a person in need.
    I talked to the guy for hours on Skype, he was thinking about injecting testosterone, and between testosterone and HCG, the second is less harmful. About ssri. Fausto is taking it and said that he really need it because it was hard to avoid suicidal thoughts.

    I don’t remember but I think he did 10 days water fast, he tried coffee enemas, which I back him off. I’m not being unethical, I like the guy, I talked to him everyday and I was telling him everyday to do hiit and exercises.

    First thing I said to him was to start doing hiit and exercises and check how his body would react after a couple days at gym. He was worried about getting a high quality herb because he couldn’t get from lost empire because his country would basically stop it in the mail, so I said that he could buy high quality in his country, I also said that it would be a good ideia to test each herb first, because I had bad reaction with panax ginseng and saw some guys getting bad reactions from ashwaghanda.

    I basically said everything that is on totalmaleoptimization and said that coffee enemas and liver flush are not good for him. I only said about HCG because he was thinking about TRT once and ssri because he was too desperate and between his life and taking a little bit more to recover I would prefer to say take the medication if you feel that it would help you (but I said it was counterproductive and would be better to take cold showers and exercises to release endorphins)

    I had depression with clomid, suicidal thoughts but I new it was from low estrogen (his estradiol is too low and it’s the root of his depression) and I told him that it would go away as soon as his T:E improve.

  8. #18
    A 1k Club Member Feedback Score 0 Maxout777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazilianguy View Post
    I talked to the guy for hours on Skype, he was thinking about injecting testosterone, and between testosterone and HCG, the second is less harmful. About ssri. Fausto is taking it and said that he really need it because it was hard to avoid suicidal thoughts.

    I don’t remember but I think he did 10 days water fast, he tried coffee enemas, which I back him off. I’m not being unethical, I like the guy, I talked to him everyday and I was telling him everyday to do hiit and exercises.

    First thing I said to him was to start doing hiit and exercises and check how his body would react after a couple days at gym. He was worried about getting a high quality herb because he couldn’t get from lost empire because his country would basically stop it in the mail, so I said that he could buy high quality in his country, I also said that it would be a good ideia to test each herb first, because I had bad reaction with panax ginseng and saw some guys getting bad reactions from ashwaghanda.

    I basically said everything that is on totalmaleoptimization and said that coffee enemas and liver flush are not good for him. I only said about HCG because he was thinking about TRT once and ssri because he was too desperate and between his life and taking a little bit more to recover I would prefer to say take the medication if you feel that it would help you (but I said it was counterproductive and would be better to take cold showers and exercises to release endorphins)

    I had depression with clomid, suicidal thoughts but I new it was from low estrogen (his estradiol is too low and it’s the root of his depression) and I told him that it would go away as soon as his T:E improve.
    1.) Panax ginseng is NOT suggested for rotation or on the protocol. Please quit talking about it. I used it early on in my recovery and it didn’t help me, basically hurt me.

    2.) What is wrong with coffee enemas? In what fucked up sense of mind could you say to someone “nah, man - coffee in the anus is too dangerous. Better start with some HCG or SSRIs.

    3.) See #2. What is wrong with Liver Flush? Both of these items I could see CD adding to the protocol because they are both.....wait for it.....FANTASTIC for OVERALL health.

    Honestly man, you have been at this for years to no avail. At what point do you consider, I don’t know, following a set blueprint for one whole year and being done with it. No HCG, SSRIs, Clomid, panax ginseng.....just what is recommended here.
    There ain't no traffic along the extra mile.

    Never Quit.

  9. #19
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    @Brazilianguy
    I wouldn’t say that the protocol calls for “extreme” exercising, it’s just strength training & muscle building, 3 days per week. (Bodybuilders generally do 5 to 7 days per week. 3 days, 45 - 60 minutes each time, is not very much.) You have to ease into it. CD said to spend a month just doing isometric exercises (such as push-ups and pull-ups) before you hit the gym. When you do go to the gym, you start with light weights and work up to heavier weights over time.

    If you are strong enough to get out of bed every morning and go to work or school, in my opinion you are strong enough to do a push-up. If you are strong enough to do one push up, you are strong enough to build up from there and do more and more. If you can’t do one push up, do one on your knees. If that’s too much, do wall push-ups by leaning against the wall and pushing away, until you are strong enough for knee push ups, then do those until you can do push-ups.

    Build up from bench pressing the empty bar (12 kg, 25 lbs), even if you can only do 1 rep. If you’re not strong enough for that, get a spotter to help you. Over time you will get stronger, and you can add 2kg weights next week. And even more the following week. This is called “progressive resistance” and it’s how you become stronger over time. If you just try to bench press 50kg when you’re out of shape, yes, you will hurt yourself or be too sore to work out for a long time. Then you will think you have adrenal fatigue that makes you too weak to exercise, but in reality you were overestimating your initial strength and underestimating your capacity to gain strength over time.

    Women, who have almost no testosterone, can build strength and muscle. A PFS-suffering man can also build muscle. This has been proven many times, by the men who dragged themselves to the gym even though they were depressed, had severe brain fog, extreme digestive issues, no libido, impotent, adrenal fatigue, candida, whatever. They followed the full program, and within a few months it was no longer torture for them to work out, it was merely challenging (because they kept increasing the intensity of the workout slowly - over time.)

    Yes, it will be hard, and emotionally difficult at first. The first 6 weeks will make you feel worse, but this is a normal part of starting to get in shape, even if you did not have PFS. You have to push past these difficulties for the first few months (lifting only light weights, which are actually not light weights for you when you are just starting out,) and then you will feel better and better over time. You shouldn’t just work out for a month and go “oh, this makes me feel bad, my hormones are too weak for me to be able to work out.”

    The reason you are getting a lot of heat here is that this forum is different than the others. This is a forum for people who are following the CDNuts protocol, whereas the other forums are for people who are trying various chemicals, various doctor protocols, various miracle cures, megadose on this vitamin, eat massive amounts of this one food, etc. Some guys have healed by using various random methods, but then 99% of the men who try to repeat it, fail.

    What is special about the CDNuts method is that it works for other guys too, not just CD. But it is a long term process, and much harder than taking some pills or injections for a few days or weeks and being cured. If you want to experiment with other cures, you can. But you can’t go in 5 or 6 directions at once, you need to pick one direction, and go at it 100%. If you’re picking this method, then fully commit to it and see how you feel in 6 months, 12 months, etc.

    One of the drugs that you mentioned, for restarting testosterone, is also used for chemical castration. I would not recommend playing around with such substances, even at low doses. You can easily end up causing massive damage. Do you realize the risk? But, you own your body, and you are free to do what you want to it.

    PFS is not about androgen deficiency - otherwise it would be cured when androgens are balanced through drugs. Over many years, many have tried, and I do not remember many cases of people who were cured by TRT, HCG, clomid, arimedex, etc. The cause of PFS is reduced androgen sensitivity, which doctors do not know how to treat with their pills.

    With PFS, the body (brain and genitals) no longer respond normally to DHT and possibly also testosterone, possibly also some other neurosteroids that are affected by finasteride and similar drugs. The protocol addresses this over time, where sensitivity is slowly restored, but it is a gradual process where progress happens over many months, with ups and downs, but an overall upward trend. If you leave out the strength training exercises and eat some junk food sometimes, you’re not doing the program, and you shouldn’t expect the results of the program.

    If a man wants to try to be cured through testosterone injections, HCG, SSRIs, chemical castration drugs, etc, let him go to PH. That is a website filled with people attempting those methods and sharing their results. Or let him wait 20 - 30 years to see if the PFS Foundation is able to discover a miracle cure (but... how old will he be?)

    This forum is specifically for people who have chosen to follow this protocol. We don’t want it to turn into a second PH, and that is why you are getting such a negative reaction when you suggest conflicting methods. I hope that whatever methods you choose work, and that you are fully healed in the future. But, this is not the right forum for those other methods you are talking about.
    Last edited by LetsGo; 02-04-2019 at 10:18 PM.

  10. #20
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 RickTheRuler's Avatar
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    I love my son and need help

    Quote Originally Posted by LetsGo View Post
    @Brazilianguy
    I wouldn’t say that the protocol calls for “extreme” exercising, it’s just strength training & muscle building, 3 days per week. (Bodybuilders generally do 5 to 7 days per week. 3 days, 45 - 60 minutes each time, is not very much.) You have to ease into it. CD said to spend a month just doing isometric exercises (such as push-ups and pull-ups) before you hit the gym. When you do go to the gym, you start with light weights and work up to heavier weights over time.

    If you are strong enough to get out of bed every morning and go to work or school, in my opinion you are strong enough to do a push-up. If you are strong enough to do one push up, you are strong enough to build up from there and do more and more. If you can’t do one push up, do one on your knees. If that’s too much, do wall push-ups by leaning against the wall and pushing away, until you are strong enough for knee push ups, then do those until you can do push-ups.

    Build up from bench pressing the empty bar (12 kg, 25 lbs), even if you can only do 1 rep. If you’re not strong enough for that, get a spotter to help you. Over time you will get stronger, and you can add 2kg weights next week. And even more the following week. This is called “progressive resistance” and it’s how you become stronger over time. If you just try to bench press 50kg when you’re out of shape, yes, you will hurt yourself or be too sore to work out for a long time. Then you will think you have adrenal issues that make you too weak to exercise, but in reality you were overestimating your initial strength and underestimating your capacity to gain strength over time.

    Women, who have almost no testosterone, can build strength and muscle. Any able-bodied PFS man can also build muscle. This has been proven many times, by the men who were dragging themselves to the gym even though they were depressed, had severe brain fog, severe digestive issues, no libido, impotent, adrenal fatigue, candida, whatever. They followed the full program, and within a few months it was no longer torture to work out, it was merely challenging.

    Yes, it will be hard, and emotionally difficult at first. The first 6 weeks will make you feel worse, but this is a normal part of starting to get in shape, even if you did not have PFS. You have to push past these difficulties for the first few months, and then you will feel better and better.

    The reason you are getting a lot of heat here is that this forum is different than the others. This is a forum for people who are following the CDNuts protocol, whereas the other forums are for people who are trying various chemicals, various doctor protocols, various miracle cures, megadose on this vitamin, eat massive amounts of this one food, etc. Some guys have healed by using various random methods, but then 99% of the men who try to repeat it, fail.

    What is special about the CDNuts method is that it works for other guys too. But it is long term, and much harder than taking some pills or injections. If you want to experiment with other cures, you will mess up the results and progress will be very slow or not happen at all. You can’t go in 5 or 6 directions at once, pick one direction and go at it 100%.

    One of the drugs that you mentioned, for restarting testosterone, is also used for chemical castration. I would not recommend playing around with such substances, even at lower doses. You can easily end up causing massive damage. Do you realize the risk? But, you own your body, and you are free to do what you want to it.

    PFS is not about androgen deficiency - otherwise it would be cured when androgens are balanced through drugs. Over many years, many have tried, and I do not remember reading about anyone who was cured by TRT, HCG, clomid, arimedex, etc. The cause of PFS is reduced androgen sensitivity.

    With PFS the body (brain and genitals) no longer respond normally to DHT and possibly also testosterone, possibly also some other neurosteroids that are affected by finasteride and similar drugs. The protocol addresses this over time, where sensitivity is slowly restored, but it is a gradual process where progress happens over many months, with ups and downs, but an overall upward trend. If you leave out the exercises and eat some junk food sometimes, you’re not doing the program and you shouldn’t expect the results of the program.

    If someone wants to try to be cured through testosterone injections, HCG, SSRIs, etc, let them go to PH. That is a website filled with people attempting those methods. Or let them wait 20 - 30 years to see if the PFS Foundation is able to discover a miracle cure (but, by then, how old will you be?)

    This forum is for people who have chosen to follow this particular protocol. We don’t want it to turn into a second PH, and that is why you are getting such a negative reaction. I hope that whatever methods you choose work, and that you are fully healed in the future. But, this is not the forum for those other methods you are talking about.
    Perfectly said. A lot of things recommend may sound counterproductive like lifting while your adrenals are shot or anything else..pfs is a different beast, you just gotta do everything no matter how you feel. I get listening to your body but at the same time you can’t listen to your body, know what I mean???you can tell the difference between the two. One is way more drastic...
    I ignore everything for the most part, it’s almost like at times you can’t trust what your body’s telling you while your recovering, you just have to put your head down and grind.. & go through the symptoms...
    my first couple of weeks of my first Andro run were suicidal depressed madness, but I know it’s cause of lowering estrogen/messing with serotonin.. eventually it got better, and after the cycle my baseline deff got slightly higher. You just have to not give a shit about the changes that are going on & love the process.

    However, I do believe that working out too long causes issues. You can beast in the gym but it has to be an hour tops. That’s about it.. my sessions are short and intense as hell.. it’s worse for you if you get excessive with how long your working out vs how intense it is.. short and explosive. If your gonna go hard as hell only lift 3x a week max... not 5-6 days.. the crazy volume and excessive time in the gym can potentially be equivalent to the effects of too much long distance jogging.. cortisol inferno.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by RickTheRuler; 02-04-2019 at 10:33 PM.

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