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  1. #1
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    First prohormone cycle

    Hi guys, wanted to ask I am about to start my first prohormone cycle, after herb rotation for about 6 months.....I bought 3 bottles of super 4 andro by Iron mag labs.....I accidentally bought the wrong one, since there is no more andro hard......should I try the super 4 andro or just ditch it and get the Androhard Transdermal by muscle gelz which Cds recommends?
    cheers fellas

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    Established Member Feedback Score 0 xxaleksi's Avatar
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    I'd get the AH transdermal. The whole point of cycling is to increase DHT, which in turn increases 5ar.

    4 andro converts to testosterone not DHT so it's probably not really useful for pfs as a standalone

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    Established Member Feedback Score 3 (100%) tallstraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxaleksi View Post
    I'd get the AH transdermal. The whole point of cycling is to increase DHT, which in turn increases 5ar.

    4 andro converts to testosterone not DHT so it's probably not really useful for pfs as a standalone
    Yeah, and testosterone converts to DHT. Additionally, Androhard, the 2-step precursor converts to DHT. So, what’s the difference in one to the other, or does one convert more readily? I’m playing catchup here to learn about this PFS stuff.
    Last edited by tallstraw; 10-11-2019 at 04:47 PM.

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    Established Member Feedback Score 0 xxaleksi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallstraw View Post
    Yeah, and testosterone converts to DHT. Additionally, Androhard, the 2-step precursor converts to DHT. So, what’s the difference in one to the other, or does one convert more readily? I’m playing catchup here to learn about this PFS stuff.
    With PFS, 5 alpha reductase most likely isn't working properly so testosterone isn't converting to DHT like it should. Androhard converts to dht through a different pathway, not through 5ar.

    The idea of cycling a DHT prohormone with PFS is to stimulate 5ar production as there's evidence that the mere presence of high DHT levels will force the body to create more 5ar enzymes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tallstraw View Post
    Yeah, and testosterone converts to DHT. Additionally, Androhard, the 2-step precursor converts to DHT. So, what’s the difference in one to the other, or does one convert more readily? I’m playing catchup here to learn about this PFS stuff.
    Testosterone is often high in pfs guys, because it cannot convert down the 5ar pathway into DHT. Instead, much of the testosterone is probably converted into estrogen, making matters worse. Androsterone is 5-ar recuded dhea, and is readily converted into dht and not estrogen. I've seen studies demonstrating that DHT has a positive feedback loop with 5-ar, so over time the higher DHT levels will create higher 5ar levels and vice versa.

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    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joelander View Post
    Hi guys, wanted to ask I am about to start my first prohormone cycle, after herb rotation for about 6 months.....I bought 3 bottles of super 4 andro by Iron mag labs.....I accidentally bought the wrong one, since there is no more andro hard......should I try the super 4 andro or just ditch it and get the Androhard Transdermal by muscle gelz which Cds recommends?
    cheers fellas
    You want to run a DHT based prohormone for your first couple cycles. I wouldn't use that as a stand alone right now. Save it for later.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by slader1 View Post
    Testosterone is often high in pfs guys, because it cannot convert down the 5ar pathway into DHT. Instead, much of the testosterone is probably converted into estrogen, making matters worse. Androsterone is 5-ar recuded dhea, and is readily converted into dht and not estrogen. I've seen studies demonstrating that DHT has a positive feedback loop with 5-ar, so over time the higher DHT levels will create higher 5ar levels and vice versa.
    Boom^^^^^^

    It's for this very reason DHT PH's are recommended.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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    cheers fellas...ill ditch the 4 andro and get the Androhard Transdermal by muscle gelz

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    Established Member Feedback Score 3 (100%) tallstraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxaleksi View Post
    With PFS, 5 alpha reductase most likely isn't working properly so testosterone isn't converting to DHT like it should. Androhard converts to dht through a different pathway, not through 5ar.

    The idea of cycling a DHT prohormone with PFS is to stimulate 5ar production as there's evidence that the mere presence of high DHT levels will force the body to create more 5ar enzymes.
    So why not just take proviron directly? Seems like the scenic route.

    Quote Originally Posted by slader1 View Post
    Testosterone is often high in pfs guys, because it cannot convert down the 5ar pathway into DHT. Instead, much of the testosterone is probably converted into estrogen, making matters worse. Androsterone is 5-ar recuded dhea, and is readily converted into dht and not estrogen. I've seen studies demonstrating that DHT has a positive feedback loop with 5-ar, so over time the higher DHT levels will create higher 5ar levels and vice versa.
    Or to take on to my previous comment, a suicidal AI and proviron. Or is that part of the program?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tallstraw View Post
    So why not just take proviron directly? Seems like the scenic route.


    Or to take on to my previous comment, a suicidal AI and proviron. Or is that part of the program?
    What do you you mean by "suicidal" AI? I personally don't see much utility in AI, other than for increasing testosterone or trying to bring high estrogen down. If someone already has decent testosterone and low estrogen, than AI will not benefit them much and may actually cause Low e2 side effects, such as dry joints/low libido. I have spent many years trying to inhibit aromatase and found that weak AI's make me feel the best, because anything too strong will lead to problems.

    Proviron I would imagine having similar effects to androsterone, though I haven't done enough reading on it yet.

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    Established Member Feedback Score 3 (100%) tallstraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slader1 View Post
    What do you you mean by "suicidal" AI? I personally don't see much utility in AI, other than for increasing testosterone or trying to bring high estrogen down.
    what do you mean what do I mean.. you have suicide and non suicidal AI's..? One is permanent one isn't.
    You also said many guys have high test and it is converted to estrogen hence my response to control with an AI. So I dont think the low estrogen side effecfs would be much of a concern for many, correct?
    Then adding in proviron instead of androsterone since it would be the target hormone you were searching for. However I misspoke, as I mistakenly thought proviron was oral dht, which is isn't exactly. So I would substitute my earlier comment and say why not a suicidal AI, and then add just take DHT. Such as the creams they sell with DHT in them?

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