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  1. #1
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    Pro-Hormon Cycle Andro-7 over Ultra-Hard?

    Dear All,
    I have been on the CDNuts protocol on and off for about a year before I started a hCG Cycle for 8 weeks. I now went back to the CDNuts protocol about 6 weeks ago. Since I read a lot good things about the Pro-Hormon Cycles I investigated a little and read in a Forum (anabolicminds.com) a post by „delsolrob“ (the owner of Iconic Formulations) that Epi-Androsterone can increase Anxiety and Androsterone can help fight Anxiety. Since Iconic Ultra Hard contains Epi-Androsterone also I was looking for an Androsterone only solution and found „Alpha 7“ also by Iconic. This also contains 7-Keto which is supposed to reduce stress also.
    My question now before I will order some, has anyone experience with this product and what is your thought about it anyway?

    Thank you for helping, king regards from Switzland.

    Michael

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    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelZurich View Post
    Dear All,
    I have been on the CDNuts protocol on and off for about a year before I started a hCG Cycle for 8 weeks. I now went back to the CDNuts protocol about 6 weeks ago. Since I read a lot good things about the Pro-Hormon Cycles I investigated a little and read in a Forum (anabolicminds.com) a post by „delsolrob“ (the owner of Iconic Formulations) that Epi-Androsterone can increase Anxiety and Androsterone can help fight Anxiety. Since Iconic Ultra Hard contains Epi-Androsterone also I was looking for an Androsterone only solution and found „Alpha 7“ also by Iconic. This also contains 7-Keto which is supposed to reduce stress also.
    My question now before I will order some, has anyone experience with this product and what is your thought about it anyway?

    Thank you for helping, king regards from Switzland.

    Michael
    I haven't' personally run it, but it does have a hefty dose of androsterone in it. I've never ran the 7, so I haven't recommended it. You willing to be a guinea pig? It can't hurt you. If you don't like the results you can simply stop the cycle.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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    Dear CD, thank you for your reply. Since I am very new to pro-hormones; can I ask you what the idea behind the Androsterone Cycles is anyway? Respectively how it is supposed to increase 5AR?
    And would you also agree upon Androsterone is more recommended over Epi-Androsterone for the sake of PFS treatment? As you can imagine I am very precautious when trying out new substances because I am very anxious about making things worse than they already are. Kind Regards Michael

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    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelZurich View Post
    Dear CD, thank you for your reply. Since I am very new to pro-hormones; can I ask you what the idea behind the Androsterone Cycles is anyway? Respectively how it is supposed to increase 5AR?
    And would you also agree upon Androsterone is more recommended over Epi-Androsterone for the sake of PFS treatment? As you can imagine I am very precautious when trying out new substances because I am very anxious about making things worse than they already are. Kind Regards Michael
    Well, it's counter intuitive the reasoning behind it, and maybe someone more "science minded" can elaborate better then myself, but I was told by the creator of the original andro hard, that 5ar is increased simply by the presence of the end product (DHT) in your system. It's almost like your body reverse engineers the shit that it needs. It didn't really make much sense to me at first, but these chemists are waaaaay smarter then me when it comes to hormones. He also sent supporting docs and lab findings etc which I should actually find and post here.

    Epi gets a bad name. I was healed by using prohormones with plenty of epi in it, because when used together with androsterone and the right ratio, any issues that certain guys MAY have with epi are mitigated by the androsterone.

    When and if you run a cycle, stick with the go to......ultrahard, which you can get by clicking the banner up at the top of the forum.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Well, it's counter intuitive the reasoning behind it, and maybe someone more "science minded" can elaborate better then myself, but I was told by the creator of the original andro hard, that 5ar is increased simply by the presence of the end product (DHT) in your system. It's almost like your body reverse engineers the shit that it needs. It didn't really make much sense to me at first, but these chemists are waaaaay smarter then me when it comes to hormones. He also sent supporting docs and lab findings etc which I should actually find and post here.

    Epi gets a bad name. I was healed by using prohormones with plenty of epi in it, because when used together with androsterone and the right ratio, any issues that certain guys MAY have with epi are mitigated by the androsterone.

    When and if you run a cycle, stick with the go to......ultrahard, which you can get by clicking the banner up at the top of the forum.

    Alright! And yes, if you‘d find the mentioned lab findings and post them here, I‘d be very much interested in reading them. Have a great day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Well, it's counter intuitive the reasoning behind it, and maybe someone more "science minded" can elaborate better then myself, but I was told by the creator of the original andro hard, that 5ar is increased simply by the presence of the end product (DHT) in your system. It's almost like your body reverse engineers the shit that it needs. It didn't really make much sense to me at first, but these chemists are waaaaay smarter then me when it comes to hormones. He also sent supporting docs and lab findings etc which I should actually find and post here.

    Epi gets a bad name. I was healed by using prohormones with plenty of epi in it, because when used together with androsterone and the right ratio, any issues that certain guys MAY have with epi are mitigated by the androsterone.

    When and if you run a cycle, stick with the go to......ultrahard, which you can get by clicking the banner up at the top of the forum.
    I found the study at one point and downloaded it but it got corrupted and is now unreadable but the jist of it is, the presence of DHT raises 5AR enzymes in the body.

    Michael, I have tried both Alpha Seven and UltraHard. I initially thought Alpha Seven might be better because it was more pure Andro, but it just made me tired all the time. I couldn't get through the day without wanting to nap and I barely had any energy to be productive or motivated. I noticed this and immediately bough UltraHard because the guys on here were raving about it and I will tell you that the mix of epi and Androsterone feels much better. I felt Androgenic but it was balanced. I read that Androsterone acts as a Positive Allosteric Modulator on GABA and Epi acts as Negative so you want a balance. Too much of one will make you tired and too much of the other will make you anxious and jittery.

    - - - Updated - - -

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    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlucchi View Post
    I found the study at one point and downloaded it but it got corrupted and is now unreadable but the jist of it is, the presence of DHT raises 5AR enzymes in the body.

    Michael, I have tried both Alpha Seven and UltraHard. I initially thought Alpha Seven might be better because it was more pure Andro, but it just made me tired all the time. I couldn't get through the day without wanting to nap and I barely had any energy to be productive or motivated. I noticed this and immediately bough UltraHard because the guys on here were raving about it and I will tell you that the mix of epi and Androsterone feels much better. I felt Androgenic but it was balanced. I read that Androsterone acts as a Positive Allosteric Modulator on GABA and Epi acts as Negative so you want a balance. Too much of one will make you tired and too much of the other will make you anxious and jittery.

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    Yeah....the seven, from the other ingredient in it never feels right to me. Actually anytime I tried taking something with the sole intent of lowering cortisol, it pretty much shut me down.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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    Established Member Feedback Score 0 TubZy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlucchi View Post
    I found the study at one point and downloaded it but it got corrupted and is now unreadable but the jist of it is, the presence of DHT raises 5AR enzymes in the body.

    Michael, I have tried both Alpha Seven and UltraHard. I initially thought Alpha Seven might be better because it was more pure Andro, but it just made me tired all the time. I couldn't get through the day without wanting to nap and I barely had any energy to be productive or motivated. I noticed this and immediately bough UltraHard because the guys on here were raving about it and I will tell you that the mix of epi and Androsterone feels much better. I felt Androgenic but it was balanced. I read that Androsterone acts as a Positive Allosteric Modulator on GABA and Epi acts as Negative so you want a balance. Too much of one will make you tired and too much of the other will make you anxious and jittery.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Feed-forward control of prostate growth: dihydrotestosterone induces expression of its own biosynthetic enzyme, steroid 5 alpha-reductase - PubMed

    DHT stimulates its own synthesis. BTW - there are already a ton of threads/posts explaining this topic on this forum (search button) in relation to prohormones effects.

    Best bet is to stick with only single prohormone supplements so you know exactly what is causing what IMO.

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    Board Admin Feedback Score 0 delsolrob's Avatar
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    I do think the balance of androsterone and epiandrosterone in Ultra Hard is pretty ideal to get the best of both worlds and mitigate sides.

    as for the mechanism to increase 5AR, this is not something I can speak to without doing a bit of digging. But, realize that can androsterone convert to DHT without 5AR...not to mention it's also a potent neuro steroid and offers a myriad of other benefits on it's own. If the above study is correct and dht causes an increase in 5ar then it makes sense.

    One of the side effects of a large dose of Androsterone is lethargy - this is mitigated in Ultra Hard by the presence of epiandrosterone. Most users of Alpha Seven have reported mitigating the side effect of lethargy by running dermacrine of DHEA with it. This effect has nothing to do with the 7-keto in the Alpha Seven

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    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delsolrob View Post
    I do think the balance of androsterone and epiandrosterone in Ultra Hard is pretty ideal to get the best of both worlds and mitigate sides.

    as for the mechanism to increase 5AR, this is not something I can speak to without doing a bit of digging. But, realize that can androsterone convert to DHT without 5AR...not to mention it's also a potent neuro steroid and offers a myriad of other benefits on it's own. If the above study is correct and dht causes an increase in 5ar then it makes sense.

    One of the side effects of a large dose of Androsterone is lethargy - this is mitigated in Ultra Hard by the presence of epiandrosterone. Most users of Alpha Seven have reported mitigating the side effect of lethargy by running dermacrine of DHEA with it. This effect has nothing to do with the 7-keto in the Alpha Seven
    I agree simply because of my experience. I ALWAYS used PH's that had a blend of the two isomers.....always.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TubZy View Post
    Feed-forward control of prostate growth: dihydrotestosterone induces expression of its own biosynthetic enzyme, steroid 5 alpha-reductase - PubMed

    DHT stimulates its own synthesis. BTW - there are already a ton of threads/posts explaining this topic on this forum (search button) in relation to prohormones effects.

    Best bet is to stick with only single prohormone supplements so you know exactly what is causing what IMO.
    Thanks Tubz
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 04-12-2021 at 06:24 PM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

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