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  1. #371
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    Pretty sure I started this cycle a bit premature, starting to experience some intense crash like symptoms reminiscent of the old days. Gonna try to push through the tough part to the end of my cycle, I feel like I’ve been through the absolute worst this thing has to offer and I’m just not afraid of it anymore.

    If it becomes crystal clear to me that I shouldn’t push forward I’ll end my cycle a few days early, but if not then I’m just gonna finish. Only like 10 days left.

    I’ve learned to appreciate downswings because they remind me of how bad things used to be and how far I’ve come
    Last edited by Turnover25; 08-11-2021 at 09:55 PM.

  2. #372
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    Turnover have you started feeling herbs when you are not on cycle.I don’t feel them now but when I tried them initially after crash I got raging sensation down there for sometime after following protocol for like 14 days.

  3. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravmeena View Post
    Turnover have you started feeling herbs when you are not on cycle.I don’t feel them now but when I tried them initially after crash I got raging sensation down there for sometime after following protocol for like 14 days.
    It’s hard to say since I’ve been taking them for like a year and 8 months, I don’t know what to compare it to

  4. #374
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    Ended my cycle, feeling like shit. Spent 4 out of the past 6 months on prohormones, gonna take a nice 4-5 month break from them and work to get my test and estrogen up, do another fast, and implement a few more things that I want to try such as no electronics after 9 pm, quitting caffeine, etc.

    Keep pushing

  5. #375
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    Ended my cycle, feeling like shit. Spent 4 out of the past 6 months on prohormones, gonna take a nice 4-5 month break from them and work to get my test and estrogen up, do another fast, and implement a few more things that I want to try such as no electronics after 9 pm, quitting caffeine, etc.

    Keep pushing
    Wow. For future reference, when cycling, time on, should always equal time off. I know sometimes it's tempting to stay on, but that defeats the point of the whole protocol. Not to mention the cycles work better when you don't go longer then 8 weeks per clip. 8 weeks back on the herbs, then you can cycle again. I wouldn't wait 4-5 months for your next cycle. I would do it again in say 10 weeks. This time stick to the proper timeline.

    You'll get there.....
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 08-23-2021 at 11:09 AM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  6. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Wow. For future reference, when cycling, time on, should always equal time off. I know sometimes it's tempting to stay on, but that defeats the point of the whole protocol. Not to mention the cycles work better when you don't go longer then 8 weeks per clip. 8 weeks back on the herbs, then you can cycle again. I wouldn't wait 4-5 months for your next cycle. I would do it again in say 10 weeks. This time stick to the proper timeline.

    You'll get there.....
    Yeah man, tempting is a good way to describe it haha. Pushed it a bit too hard, learned what I can and can’t handle. Starting to feel a bit better now though. Just felt very run down and depressed. Didn’t seem to get much out of my 4th cycle just because I started before I was ready. Huge difference between starting at the right time or not. I’ll shoot for 10 weeks

  7. #377
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    Feeling a little better now that I have been off the prohormones for about a week, not sure if I got a lot of benefit from that last cycle because I started so early, but my body just started dreaming naturally again.

    I’ve made some serious strides in the past year in spite of eating sugar/sweets often, drinking alcohol, caffeine, processed foods, not all the time but more than I’d like to admit. I am just hellbent on getting rid of my brain fog now, it’s not as bad but still hasn’t lifted. Here’s the new additions on top of the protocol-

    No alcohol
    No sugar (besides fruits)
    No red meat (brain fog)
    No grains
    No high GI carbs (due to brain fog) only bananas and things like that
    No caffeine (brain fog, but have wanted to give this up for years)
    Eat plenty of sauerkraut and shit like that

    Paleo diet aiming at foods good for the thyroid, ie no cruciferous veggies, which make me feel like shit

    Basically following a diet that is along the same lines as Japanther and Mitch, who were both sufferers of the same shit as me, who managed to beat it.

    No electronics after 9, bed by 10:30
    No social media
    Intermittent fasting, eating window noon-8

    Gonna do another water fast here soon, and probably a dopamine fast just to see what that’s all about. Basically gonna sit in my apartment and stare at a wall for 2 days straight, take walks, etc.

    Things I’m left stuck with-

    Brain fog/neurological bs (aka bad short term memory, dizzy spells, vision, disconnect)
    Anhedonia (I think it’s improving)
    Libido
    Dry skin
    Could be more? Idk. Those are the only ones I notice

    Edit: I’m also not in a horrible place anymore. Recently moved to Denver, Colorado, and I work as an accountant. I’ve taken huge strides from where I came from, which was being completely unable to function. But it’s time to finally beat this shit
    Last edited by Turnover25; 08-23-2021 at 02:25 PM.

  8. #378
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    Feeling a little better now that I have been off the prohormones for about a week, not sure if I got a lot of benefit from that last cycle because I started so early, but my body just started dreaming naturally again.

    I’ve made some serious strides in the past year in spite of eating sugar/sweets often, drinking alcohol, caffeine, processed foods, not all the time but more than I’d like to admit. I am just hellbent on getting rid of my brain fog now, it’s not as bad but still hasn’t lifted. Here’s the new additions on top of the protocol-

    No alcohol
    No sugar (besides fruits)
    No red meat (brain fog)
    No grains
    No high GI carbs (due to brain fog) only bananas and things like that
    No caffeine (brain fog, but have wanted to give this up for years)
    Eat plenty of sauerkraut and shit like that

    Paleo diet aiming at foods good for the thyroid, ie no cruciferous veggies, which make me feel like shit

    Basically following a diet that is along the same lines as Japanther and Mitch, who were both sufferers of the same shit as me, who managed to beat it.

    No electronics after 9, bed by 10:30
    No social media
    Intermittent fasting, eating window noon-8

    Gonna do another water fast here soon, and probably a dopamine fast just to see what that’s all about. Basically gonna sit in my apartment and stare at a wall for 2 days straight, take walks, etc.

    Things I’m left stuck with-

    Brain fog/neurological bs (aka bad short term memory, dizzy spells, vision, disconnect)
    Anhedonia (I think it’s improving)
    Libido
    Dry skin
    Could be more? Idk. Those are the only ones I notice

    Edit: I’m also not in a horrible place anymore. Recently moved to Denver, Colorado, and I work as an accountant. I’ve taken huge strides from where I came from, which was being completely unable to function. But it’s time to finally beat this shit
    And you will......the last part is always the longest and hardest because you're close enough to know you can feel normal again but you're just not quite there yet....Just keep doing what you were doing. (Except the alcohol and party favors, because believe me, they're doing you NO favors)

    And you get benefit from every cycle whether you feel it or not. Some cycles are more "behind the scenes" and some are in your face. Either way things are happening biologically regardless of the state you're in. That being said, they will run you down if you're not on top of it.

    If you're that hell bent on getting rid of the brain fog, you really should be sober for a few months....it makes that much of a difference. If you have to do something, well you're living in the perfect state for it!

    You got this.

    Out of curiosity, where did you move from?
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 08-23-2021 at 02:55 PM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  9. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    Feeling a little better now that I have been off the prohormones for about a week, not sure if I got a lot of benefit from that last cycle because I started so early, but my body just started dreaming naturally again.

    I’ve made some serious strides in the past year in spite of eating sugar/sweets often, drinking alcohol, caffeine, processed foods, not all the time but more than I’d like to admit. I am just hellbent on getting rid of my brain fog now, it’s not as bad but still hasn’t lifted. Here’s the new additions on top of the protocol-

    No alcohol
    No sugar (besides fruits)
    No red meat (brain fog)
    No grains
    No high GI carbs (due to brain fog) only bananas and things like that
    No caffeine (brain fog, but have wanted to give this up for years)
    Eat plenty of sauerkraut and shit like that

    Paleo diet aiming at foods good for the thyroid, ie no cruciferous veggies, which make me feel like shit

    Basically following a diet that is along the same lines as Japanther and Mitch, who were both sufferers of the same shit as me, who managed to beat it.

    No electronics after 9, bed by 10:30
    No social media
    Intermittent fasting, eating window noon-8

    Gonna do another water fast here soon, and probably a dopamine fast just to see what that’s all about. Basically gonna sit in my apartment and stare at a wall for 2 days straight, take walks, etc.

    Things I’m left stuck with-

    Brain fog/neurological bs (aka bad short term memory, dizzy spells, vision, disconnect)
    Anhedonia (I think it’s improving)
    Libido
    Dry skin
    Could be more? Idk. Those are the only ones I notice

    Edit: I’m also not in a horrible place anymore. Recently moved to Denver, Colorado, and I work as an accountant. I’ve taken huge strides from where I came from, which was being completely unable to function. But it’s time to finally beat this shit
    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    Feeling a little better now that I have been off the prohormones for about a week, not sure if I got a lot of benefit from that last cycle because I started so early, but my body just started dreaming naturally again.

    I’ve made some serious strides in the past year in spite of eating sugar/sweets often, drinking alcohol, caffeine, processed foods, not all the time but more than I’d like to admit. I am just hellbent on getting rid of my brain fog now, it’s not as bad but still hasn’t lifted. Here’s the new additions on top of the protocol-

    No alcohol
    No sugar (besides fruits)
    No red meat (brain fog)
    No grains
    No high GI carbs (due to brain fog) only bananas and things like that
    No caffeine (brain fog, but have wanted to give this up for years)
    Eat plenty of sauerkraut and shit like that

    Paleo diet aiming at foods good for the thyroid, ie no cruciferous veggies, which make me feel like shit

    Basically following a diet that is along the same lines as Japanther and Mitch, who were both sufferers of the same shit as me, who managed to beat it.

    No electronics after 9, bed by 10:30
    No social media
    Intermittent fasting, eating window noon-8

    Gonna do another water fast here soon, and probably a dopamine fast just to see what that’s all about. Basically gonna sit in my apartment and stare at a wall for 2 days straight, take walks, etc.

    Things I’m left stuck with-

    Brain fog/neurological bs (aka bad short term memory, dizzy spells, vision, disconnect)
    Anhedonia (I think it’s improving)
    Libido
    Dry skin
    Could be more? Idk. Those are the only ones I notice

    Edit: I’m also not in a horrible place anymore. Recently moved to Denver, Colorado, and I work as an accountant. I’ve taken huge strides from where I came from, which was being completely unable to function. But it’s time to finally beat this shit
    Hey man, I'm glad to hear that you're doing much better. Keeping it short, keeping it rolling:

    Booze, probably not a good idea.

    Caffeine cleared my fog for maybe an hour, like nicotine, and then it would come back with a vengeance later on in the day. I only drink it occasionally now, and I seem to tolerate it much better as long as it's with food and it's not a double shot. I'd drop it for a while and see how it goes, or dial it back and try eating before you drink it. You know the drill.

    No grains, no sugar, no high GI shit, all smart choices. Ripe bananas are high GI, but I wouldn't worry about them. You can temper your body's glucose response by including protein and certain fats with your carbs. I've fucked around with a glucometer before and tried this out. It's also been studied, clinically and n=1, by well reputed researchers like Dom D'agostino. If you're worried about keeping your blood sugar down, go for 10-30 minute post-meal walks. Walking is seriously underrated, I think a 30 minute walk a day should be protocol.

    I've met other people who claim that they struggle with red meat, and I don't want to dismiss your own experience with it, but I think it has played a crucial role in my own recovery. I eat more red meat than any other type of meat, at least once, if not twice, a day. It's not just the bioavailable nutrients within, it's the ratios of the nutrients, and the presence of so many different cofactors, that I think is really important to your health. I would really reconsider cutting this out. That being said, I do spend a lot of cash on my meat, as I only go for grass-fed/finished for the reasons that I listed above, as well as the absence of grains and certain fats in conventionally raised meat. I would also include like 4-6 oz of beef/chicken liver every other day if you can stomach it. It took a while to acclimate to it, but now my body craves it. I got my mom on that train too, and she says the same thing. I don't think high cholesterol is bad in certain contexts, but for those who are wondering, mine is still in the normal range. HDL is around 55 and LDL is like 110. Trigs are 50. I always eat fibrous veggies with meat out of habit, and I've read before that certain fibers will actually bind to the cholesterol and hinder absorption in the gut (not that you necessarily want to do that).

    I reduced my intake of cruciferous veggies too. I still eat steamed broccoli, cauliflower rice, and sautéd purp cabbage, but I don't throw chard, kale, and spinach in a blender anymore. I can't really say if this has helped, but my bloodwork is better and I'm not nutritionally deficient in anything.

    The only thing that I would add, cause I know you like your gluten-free processed shit, is to avoid that. It's marginally better at best. Most of them contain seed oils too, and at the risk of coming across like another dude who stumbled across CarnivoreMD, I do think that processed seed oils are detrimental to human physiology and should be eliminated from the food chain.

    Send me a pm if you want me to walk you through my eating habits. I feel like I have them dialed, and I know it's really helped me overcome this.

    All the best, we'll have to grab a drink at union station once this is behind us.

  10. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    Feeling a little better now that I have been off the prohormones for about a week, not sure if I got a lot of benefit from that last cycle because I started so early, but my body just started dreaming naturally again.

    I’ve made some serious strides in the past year in spite of eating sugar/sweets often, drinking alcohol, caffeine, processed foods, not all the time but more than I’d like to admit. I am just hellbent on getting rid of my brain fog now, it’s not as bad but still hasn’t lifted. Here’s the new additions on top of the protocol-

    No alcohol
    No sugar (besides fruits)
    No red meat (brain fog)
    No grains
    No high GI carbs (due to brain fog) only bananas and things like that
    No caffeine (brain fog, but have wanted to give this up for years)
    Eat plenty of sauerkraut and shit like that

    Paleo diet aiming at foods good for the thyroid, ie no cruciferous veggies, which make me feel like shit

    Basically following a diet that is along the same lines as Japanther and Mitch, who were both sufferers of the same shit as me, who managed to beat it.

    No electronics after 9, bed by 10:30
    No social media
    Intermittent fasting, eating window noon-8

    Gonna do another water fast here soon, and probably a dopamine fast just to see what that’s all about. Basically gonna sit in my apartment and stare at a wall for 2 days straight, take walks, etc.

    Things I’m left stuck with-

    Brain fog/neurological bs (aka bad short term memory, dizzy spells, vision, disconnect)
    Anhedonia (I think it’s improving)
    Libido
    Dry skin
    Could be more? Idk. Those are the only ones I notice

    Edit: I’m also not in a horrible place anymore. Recently moved to Denver, Colorado, and I work as an accountant. I’ve taken huge strides from where I came from, which was being completely unable to function. But it’s time to finally beat this shit
    When you're on the prohormones do those symptoms go away?

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