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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    I agree with what you’re saying to an extent, but it’s always nice to have more options at your disposal if progress is made. Joe is a pretty smart guy, and he doesn’t try and persuade people into following him. Right now we know how to cure pfs in a long, hard road, if he finds something quicker, all the power to him.
    Not trying to throw shade at Joe. You’re almost done bro, so surprised to hear YOU say that!

    The only long and hard road is messing with your hormones and searching for a silver bullet. TMO for life babyyy

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooks View Post
    Not trying to throw shade at Joe. You’re almost done bro, so surprised to hear YOU say that!

    The only long and hard road is messing with your hormones and searching for a silver bullet. TMO for life babyyy
    I know I was just speaking out loud. It’s been a long road my friend. Lol

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    I know I was just speaking out loud. It’s been a long road my friend. Lol
    Well you’ve motivated a lot of people man, including myself. I’m not far behind you. Let’s keep pushing, 110% or bust.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooks View Post
    Well you’ve motivated a lot of people man, including myself. I’m not far behind you. Let’s keep pushing, 110% or bust.
    Glad to hear that brother, always.

  5. #205
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    I agree with turnover25, the protocol works and everyone knows that, but it would be even better if we focus on why it is working anf try to enhance the process which will probably lead to faster recoveries, at least it makes sense

    Also joe i wanted to ask for your advice if someone like me whom was already on TRT before using Finastride and got PFS can actually get allopregnanolone and progesterone metabolites high enough to recover?

    I jumped on TRT because my testosterone was already pretty low before Finastride, and it’s been over two years on TRT without using hcg son I don’t think it’s even possible for me to kickstart my natural production at this poin anymore, and when i hear people say you need to raise your natural hormone stream to recover makes me feel like im a lost case if I might say.

  6. #206
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Hulk Smash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Perhaps. But the problem in PFS of low IGF-1 and GH is the GABAA positive modulating neurosteroids in the brain, like Androsterone and Allopregnanolone. They stimulate GAD (short for Glutamic Acid Decarboxylase) which is a reducing agent that converts Glutamate (an excitatory neurotransmitter) into GABA (a sedative neurotransmitter). GABA was found in a study to potently stimulate GH secretion from the pituitary when administered to a control group. On average, it raised GH levels by ~400%. And we know in PFS that individuals have low to undetectable levels of Allopregnanolone in CSF. This in turn would cause low GABA levels as well then low GH and low IGF-1, since GH stimulates IGF-1 production in the liver. This pattern is actually used by some doctors in treating PFS nowadays. And even generalized TBI.

    I should also add that several in this forum and the WhatsApp group had neurotransmitters tested, including myself, through ZRT. All of us had severely low GABA.
    Its a complex situation.
    Looks like you have a method that works.
    And I will try it out if you have positive results.

    BUT, I'm hoping that consistently keeping cortisol healthy, lowering inflammation, good sleep, optimal nutrition, etc; will slowly "reignite" many or all functions.

    The thing is, how long would that take, if its possible? I'd imagine it would require years of discipline to change biochemical flow?

    To me the overall dysfunction was caused by
    excess stress on the body via heightened estrogen, insomnia and high cortisol = total biological shutdown. So putting these in proper order for several years should do the trick.

    Do you think restoring GABA might do the trick for tinnitus?

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Not without progestogen metabolites/neurosteroids. They are the only things that stimulate GAD to produce GABA. And testosterone doesn't contribute to GABA production. Androgens binding to Androgen Receptors is what stimulates Dopamine production. But not GABA. Healthy is always great though for general health regardless.
    Got ya. In your opinion what’s the easiest way to raise GABA?

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    I can already tell you why it works. The underlying issue is methylation on thousands of genes in DNA. We just had a study released this week that was 8 years in the making. They examined 26 different PFS guys and took penile tissue samples. In the samples, they surveyed a plethora of genes and found over 3,000 had been methylated. Methylation on genes causes either overexpression or underexpression of various enzymes, receptors, and chemicals. In short, a shitload of things got altered. I'll link to it below.

    Differential Gene Expression in Post-Finasteride Syndrome Patients

    The protocol calls for long water fasts, which puts your body into ketosis. That's when the adrenals pump out an excess amount of ketones from caloric deficits, which are endogenous butyrates that act as HDAC inhibitors and they demethylate genes when in circulation. So, water fasting is actually reversing all of this methylation slowly overtime. Thing is, you don't need to water fast to get these in your system. They have butyrates OTC, like sodium butyrate, BHB, and Tributyrin, that you can take daily. Additionally, you then use certain things in the protocol that stimulate hormones and neurotransmitters, which also help to influence gene expression, while not water fasting. Eventually, the switches are flipped, gene expression is restored, and you feel better again.

    Sadly, if you have primary hypogonadism and are on TRT, you have a very rough road ahead in recovery. I never recommend standalone TRT for PFS. There is absolutely no way to fix testes that have been damaged due to steroid usage. The testes are responsible for producing most of the testosterone that circulates through body. But they also produce a modest amount of progesterone. When you use TRT, you obviously suppress the testes and are only supplementing the androgens but not the progestogens. If you absolutely have to use TRT because your testes are permanently damaged, then you would need to use a small amount of progesterone with the TRT to get Allopregnanolone downstream. Something like 10-25mg of progesterone cream once daily before bed.

    If your testes aren't permanently damaged, then you need to get off of it and get your LH and FSH back up, which will also get progesterone back up. Typically, doctors will give you clomid for that and some HCG to wake the boys up after being suppressed for so long.
    Thank you for the insight man
    Thing is I can’t really tell if my testes can be kickstarted again without trying, I jumped on TRT because low testosterone and I never used steroids before that and I actually felt amazing on TRT alone although in theory i had no allopregnanolone and it confuses me how the lack of allopreg is causing these issues when i felt great on TRT beforehand even with crushed allo if you know what i mean.

    Question is if i never had primary hypogonadism before using TRT and it was only a matter of low testosterone due to lifestyle choices is it possible that i can get my natural production to normal ranges even after two years on TRT? i know you’re not a doctor and im only asking for opinions.

  9. #209
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Hulk Smash's Avatar
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    Do you have experience taking butyrates?

    Dosage? How long should be taken?
    Ok to take with other supplements?
    Possible reactions to expect?

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk Smash View Post
    Do you have experience taking butyrates?

    Dosage? How long should be taken?
    Ok to take with other supplements?
    Possible reactions to expect?
    Taking butyrates is like Russian roulette in PFS from my knowledge. When I was recovering, people suggested them and some improved and it was a great help and some crashed miserably.

    Can I ask why you're considering GH analogues, butyrates and other things not on the protocol but seem adverse to running R-Andro? Seems sort of odd, honestly.
    There ain't no traffic along the extra mile.

    Never Quit.

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