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  1. #1
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Swill's Avatar
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    Swill's Conundrum... What do you guys think?!

    Hey guys,

    Firstly hello to old friends and new faces, hope you are well.

    As some of you may know, I had PFS back in 2013 and recovered (to a large extent) a number of years back. My desire never returned to what it was, but I was getting by just fine in the sack and happy, healthy and the hell I went through was very much in the rear view mirror.

    Life has been absolutely peachy up to this year... married to a beautiful gal, all good in every aspect of my life and my happiest years.

    However, in March of this year I had the sudden onset of extreme anxiety and panic, to the point that I spent the vast majority of the day in 'fight or flight' mode, it was very perplexing as I have never had anything like this previously and it has absolutely destroyed my life as I know it... im down around 25lbs, shaking and in constant fear and dread, overwhelmed by basic tasks and i've been off work since March (for comparison, during my PFS period I never missed a day of work).

    I was diagnosed with low T in mid March, and knowing what I know I got straight back on plan and my T returned to lower-mid range, which is normal for me (I have one functioning nut, which is what I attribute to not fully recovering my libido... the one guy was being asked to do a lot of work and I couldn't get as optimised as you two-nutted guys). I felt a little better and was due to return to work in Mid-April, but unfortunately it recurred and things fell off again.

    I have been through a hellish situation since, whereby doctors thought it was potentially due to an adrenal tumor or tumor in the body, then a good friend stated it could be a pituitary tumor.... dozens of blood tests, a CT scan of the abdomen and an MRI of the head later and I got the all clear in that sense, but the matter persisted. A pretty terrifying time.

    I also tried an anti-depressant medication when I got very desperate and things were getting very dark for me, I opted for Mirtazapine as I know about PSSD and the links with PFS, and Mirtazapine isn't associated with this as it is not an SSRI and actually weirdly has pro-sexual side effects. Unfortunately it did not agree with me and nearly put me over the edge when going onto it and when tapering off after only 6 weeks, which brings me to now...

    In truth, i'm in a really dark place and have been having suicidal thoughts, which is really not like me. I'm exhausted from all this, and really not sure where to turn with it all... The anxiety has really ramped up since coming off the medication and I also have insomnia from the withdrawal.

    I was just wondering what you guys think about the following...

    I was fortunate enough to not develop severe psychological/neurological sides with my PFS battle back in 2013, and aside from some brain fog and situational anxiety it was the sexual side effects I had problems with. I am however aware that finasteride can do some bad shit to GABA receptors and allopregnanolone in the brain, which are the calming elements with the fight or flight response. Do you think that after all this time, PFS could be at play for the persistent issues I'm now experiencing?

    I've always been fit, active and healthy but will admit that over the lockdown period, which was quite militant here in the UK with everything closed for a long time, I had let things go and ate and drank more than I usually would... I also tore a shoulder muscle at the beginning of lockdown in march last year so couldn't see a physio for months, by which time it was a real mess and took a lot of rehabbing... couldn't even do cardio outdoors for a long while. However, I was still in decent athletic shape... I can't see how this in isolation would have caused it, but maybe it was a compounding factor with my health and hormones not being where they were...

    Any input would be gratefully received, not sure if this could be things bottoming out due to lingering finasteride issues in the brain, or if it is something completely separate.

    At the moment I am considering everything from TRT (knowing my hormones are never going to be totally optimal due to the 1 nut situation and me starting to get a little older), to maybe stem cell therapy which I've heard great things about...

    Kinda at the end of my tether, and I know nobody here has a crystal ball, but anyone input would be gratefully received.

    Hope you are all happy and healthy!
    Last edited by Swill; 07-26-2021 at 01:39 PM.
    WORK! CONSUME! DIE!

  2. #2
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    Very perplexing indeed. Perhaps a new care product you used had some saw palmetto hidden in the ingredient list?

    Iíd be very surprised PFS just randomly pops up again so violently after years of recovery unless you would come in contact again.

    You are precisely describing my symptoms when I came down. I also went the mirtazapine route and quit after a few months. And I also dealt with the insomnia aftermath so I feel you.
    But I can also guarantee you it will get better, of my own experience.

    Good news is that if it indeed is PFS then you know what to do and you know it will work. Start listening to binaural tracks while doing breathing exercises and prepare to embrace the succ for a while. Best advice I can give you is to just accept it is happening and not to stress out about it too much, as hard as that may sound.

    Look into buying some Kava to take the edge off when things feel unmanageable. It potentiates the GABA receptors, and really helped me when I felt completely lost.
    Last edited by Mojo; 07-26-2021 at 02:37 PM.

  3. #3
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Swill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    Very perplexing indeed. Perhaps a new care product you used had some saw palmetto hidden in the ingredient list?

    Iíd be very surprised PFS just randomly pops up again so violently after years of recovery unless you would come in contact again.

    You are precisely describing my symptoms when I came down. I also went the mirtazapine route and quit after a few months. And I also dealt with the insomnia aftermath so I feel you.
    But I can also guarantee you it will get better, of my own experience.

    Good news is that if it indeed is PFS then you know what to do and you know it will work. Start listening to binaural tracks while doing breathing exercises and prepare to embrace the succ for a while. Best advice I can give you is to just accept it is happening and not to stress out about it too much, as hard as that may sound.

    Look into buying some Kava to take the edge off when things feel unmanageable. It potentiates the GABA receptors, and really helped me when I felt completely lost.
    Thank you, man. Did you get any relief with the mirtazapine, and did you get hyperarousal with your anxiety going on and coming off, as well as the insomnia?

    Is there a particular brand of kava you would recommend?
    WORK! CONSUME! DIE!

  4. #4
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    This is what I had pre-PSSD. Itís just an anxiety disorder, I think. Focus on your health and on calming down. Thatís all really. I wish I could go back to what you describe, itís much better, and eventually you calm down and everything is fine.

  5. #5
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    Weird stuff, man. Iíll give you my 2 cents.

    If your desired never returned, Iíd have a suspicion that you truly werenít ďout of the woodsĒ so to speak completely. Maybe you deemed yourself ďgood enoughĒ and moved on. The medication could have tripped you up a bit if that were the case, not really sure. But anxiety and panic are a thing for normal everyday people, just reading this gave me a bit of fight or flight, so Iíd dissect your current life and see if there are any psychological stressors at play.

    I was primarily a neurological victim of PFS. Anxiety, panic and inability to handle simple tasks and getting completely overwhelmed by just doing shit like vacuuming my house was a huge, HUGE issue for me. Total nightmare, I get it. But I can assure you it passes. It did for me, and Iíve crashed myself like 3 times with 5ARIís over my course of this. So even if it has anything to do with PFS, which it probably doesnít, youíll be fine either way.

    Curious what @Cdsnuts and @Maxout777 thoughts are here

    Edit: the more I read this thread, it sounds like a pfs crash. Thereís plenty of stories where guys have crashed years later. And my crystal ball with the sides youíre describing was the protocol for a few months, then running a pro hormones cycle. All that BS left after my first cycle and it was a lot easier.

    Not to be a dick but Iím not sure what all the random supplement suggestions are about, a lot of guys here didnít deal with hardcore neurological shit and playing with supplements can seriously fuck you in that department, you donít want to play with fire. Itís not the same as low libido where you take the wrong supplements and donít feel horny anymore, if you take something your body doesnít agree with youíre going to send yourself into a nightmare that you donít want any part of
    Last edited by Turnover25; 07-27-2021 at 12:41 AM.

  6. #6
    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0
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    Are you absolutely positive you havenít ingested anything that disturbs 5AR? Saw Palmetto is in a lot of hair products and even weight lifting supplements! Were you trying any new hair loss prevention products?

    Your description sounds textbook PFS crash.

  7. #7
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    I would hold off on the TRT until you try this:

    Amazon.com: Mofo is Ancestral Supplements Male Optimization Formula W/ Organs (Mofo) ‚ÄĒ (180 Capsules): Health Personal Care

    It really helped raise my T levels along with the protocol (which I still do). It's basically just giving your body the building blocks to strengthen its own system so you can achieve hormonal balance. I take it during the week and let my system rest on the weekends. Granted, it's currently out of stock, so I ordered this to take alongside the regular organ cocktail ancestral supplements makes. No idea if it's going to work but I figure it couldn't hurt:

    https://wildwarriornutrition.com/sho...orchic-extract

  8. #8
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 TubZy's Avatar
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    Magnesium and minerals/trace minerals in general. Majority of them increase GABA and having calming properties specifically magnesium and they all act in balance/with each other. If you want to use magnesium in isolation magnesium threonate is the most effective for brain issues. Mag chloride works to it just takes long to build up in saturation since it goes all over the body.

    Magnesium potentiation of the function of native and recombinant GABA(A) receptors - PubMed
    The Role of Magnesium in Neurological Disorders
    Treatment Of Magnesium-L-Threonate Elevates The Magnesium Level In The Cerebrospinal Fluid And Attenuates Motor Deficits And Dopamine Neuron Loss In A Mouse Model Of Parkinson‚€™s disease
    Magnesium L-threonate prevents and restores memory deficits associated with neuropathic pain by inhibition of TNF-őĪ - PubMed
    Last edited by TubZy; 07-26-2021 at 09:59 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swill View Post
    Thank you, man. Did you get any relief with the mirtazapine, and did you get hyperarousal with your anxiety going on and coming off, as well as the insomnia?

    Is there a particular brand of kava you would recommend?
    Hyperarousal of anxiety is unfortunately a common side effect of starting / stopping anti depressant medication. Itís not necessarily related to pre existing conditions. In my case getting on it was not a big problem as I started of at 3.5mg and worked myself up to 15mg over 2 month. I was a lot more anxious, panicky and fearful after stopping though. This passed slowly over the course of months afterwards. I think I had some mild benefits at 15mg, but it is hard to tell as my main comparison is the time I endured shortly after.
    The reason I stopped was having intrusive thoughts about being on it and lethargy in the morning. Together with some funky dreaming while awake in the bed. Itís a weird drug that hits a ton of receptors in the brain, and side effects are all over the place for people.

    For Kava I recommend Kalmwithkava borongoru for a more relaxed feeling. And bestfijikavaís aaa vanuata if you want to save some money and still get good bang. Itís not cheap unfortunately and it may take a few weeks for it to start having good effect. Make sure you prepare as instructions (knead in warm water with some fat added like coco milk in a strainer bag for at least 15mins) and ingest on an empty stomach. Discard the pulp in a container for later use as you can generally wash some more goodness out of it for a second run.
    Last edited by Mojo; 07-27-2021 at 02:28 AM.

  10. #10
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Swill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOPE View Post
    This is what I had pre-PSSD. It’s just an anxiety disorder, I think. Focus on your health and on calming down. That’s all really. I wish I could go back to what you describe, it’s much better, and eventually you calm down and everything is fine.
    I've certainly not ruled that out, and have explored those options too in terms of CBT, talk therapy and various methods to look to tackle anxiety (meditation, wim hof breathing, etc). Still doing all I can in that regard, and have avoided an SSRI to date because of worry over PSSD.

    Its just that it has presented in such a way when life was good and everything was great on a personal level, and I haven't been able to make any real headway with it over the last 5 months, has made me think there could be something at play here.
    WORK! CONSUME! DIE!

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