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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Perhaps. But the problem in PFS of low IGF-1 and GH is the GABAA positive modulating neurosteroids in the brain, like Androsterone and Allopregnanolone. They stimulate GAD (short for Glutamic Acid Decarboxylase) which is a reducing agent that converts Glutamate (an excitatory neurotransmitter) into GABA (a sedative neurotransmitter). GABA was found in a study to potently stimulate GH secretion from the pituitary when administered to a control group. On average, it raised GH levels by ~400%. And we know in PFS that individuals have low to undetectable levels of Allopregnanolone in CSF. This in turn would cause low GABA levels as well then low GH and low IGF-1, since GH stimulates IGF-1 production in the liver. This pattern is actually used by some doctors in treating PFS nowadays. And even generalized TBI.

    I should also add that several in this forum and the WhatsApp group had neurotransmitters tested, including myself, through ZRT. All of us had severely low GABA.
    Hey man, really interesting, not to mention it makes sense. I'm in a pretty bad downswing right now, and I'm pretty sure my GABA is in the tank. I took Ativan cuz I was in a really bad place, and it makes me feel totally normal, like PFS is gone (mental/neuro sides are all I have remaining). Any ideas on how I can stimulate GABA naturally? I'm already taking Valerian, passion flower, L-Theanine, Glycine, GABA, magnesium glycinate (ordered mag l-threonate), vit D, iodine, Rhodiola, bacopa. Once I come out of this downswing I'm planning on Androsterone cycle, but I gotta get there first. Any ideas/suggestions you can give woukd be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Yah that's consistent with what we did in the group to pinpoint issues. All of us felt mostly normal on benzos too giving us the clear indication that it's either low neurosteroids or very upregulated GABAA receptors. Either way, the way to fix it is the same. I personally focused on using the GABA boosting supplements and herbs in the protocol plus stimulating 5ar types 1 and 2 plus supplementing neurosteroids as well. You can get straight Allopregnanolone and Androsterone. Allopregnanolone can be acquired from IdeaLabs and Androsterone from IML's R-Andro.
    Always wondered about taking allopregnanolone but have been too skeptical and cautious, thoughts?

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    If you do well on Benzos and it fixes the issue while on it, then you have your answer of what's wrong. Using Allo is no different in concept to using Androsterone. The androsterone is obviously gonna make DHT to fix the androgenic issues of PFS but the Allo more so addresses the mental, cognitive, and neurological issues. I would make clear that it's not the cure to PFS but it does help based upon those that have used it thus far. I personally haven't but I used 5a-DHP (direct precursor to Allo) and always enjoyed it. Just wasn't a complete fix.
    I’ve never tried benzos so I wouldn’t know, but we compared test results some time ago and ours were nearly identical, if you remember.

    Andro REALLY helps me, so I’m curious if allo would be a good thing to try. I still have some neuro symptoms to work out. Just don’t know anything about it and don’t really like to mess with stuff, any chance of crashing from it?

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    Yah that's consistent with what we did in the group to pinpoint issues. All of us felt mostly normal on benzos too giving us the clear indication that it's either low neurosteroids or very upregulated GABAA receptors. Either way, the way to fix it is the same. I personally focused on using the GABA boosting supplements and herbs in the protocol plus stimulating 5ar types 1 and 2 plus supplementing neurosteroids as well. You can get straight Allopregnanolone and Androsterone. Allopregnanolone can be acquired from IdeaLabs and Androsterone from IML's R-Andro.
    First of all, thanks for the prompt reply, I really appreciate it.
    Do you know anyone who has tried the Allo from IdeaLabs? Not knocking them at all, but they look like a pretty small outfit - just worry about quality control. You know how it is when the mental sides hit, you worry about everything. It would be hard to feel a whole lot worse right now (basically feels like a secondary crash, not as bad as the first, but still not great) but still don't want to meet myself up more. I've seen others use 5a-DHP, you had some success with that? If I pm'd you, any chance we could chat?

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    I have used their stuff before and have had no issues with it. They replaced 5a-DHP with Allo, so that's not available any longer. But I do know of a few people who used it and noted the typical calming effects from it. No issues. Also, sure. Send away.
    Sent what I thought was a pm...maybe not. Anyway, my email is jdonston@gmail.com. Hit me up. Thanks, man.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    If you do well on Benzos and it fixes the issue while on it, then you have your answer of what's wrong. Using Allo is no different in concept to using Androsterone. The androsterone is obviously gonna make DHT to fix the androgenic issues of PFS but the Allo more so addresses the mental, cognitive, and neurological issues. I would make clear that it's not the cure to PFS but it does help based upon those that have used it thus far. I personally haven't but I used 5a-DHP (direct precursor to Allo) and always enjoyed it. Just wasn't a complete fix.
    I messaged IdeaLabs about their AlloP and asked them about dosage and how much to take and they said since it’s a lab chemical they “can’t comment on human usage”, are you sure that stuff is safe to take?

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    They have to say that for legal reasons. Allopregnanolone is now a schedule 4 drug. If you want to get dosage ideas, checkout RayPeat where they experiment there. But it looks like, according to @Jado, they use it in a pharmaceutical setting dosing 2mg every hour in women for postpartum.
    Here is a link of the dosage for women taking it for postpartum depression. It's based on weight. They start them at 30mcg/kg/hr, which translates to 2.1mg/hr (for someone who's 70kg). They then increase it over the course of 50 hours (or so) up to 90mcg/kg/hr (6.3mg/hr based on 70kg), and then decrease it again back to the starting rate.

    Brexanolone Uses, Side Effects Warnings - Drugs.com

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turnover25 View Post
    I messaged IdeaLabs about their AlloP and asked them about dosage and how much to take and they said since it’s a lab chemical they “can’t comment on human usage”, are you sure that stuff is safe to take?
    I just tried it this morning. I took 6 drops, and it actually seemed to work about 10 minutes after taking it. Then I started to feel slightly more anxious. It's 1mg per drop, so maybe 6mg was a little too much to start?? It's has an inverted U-shaped dose-effect curve, which is a fancy way to say, if you take too much you get the exact opposite effect you were looking for. Also, there are tons of guys on raypeat who have tried it. It's not to unlike the 5a-DHP guys were taking a while back - I think CD even gave that a try. Joe's right, they have to say that for legal reasons. Otherwise they'd be dealing illegal drugs.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP26 View Post
    I certainly didn't feel recovered. Just that I had COVID on top of my minimal remaining PFS symptoms. There's a lot of wild claims out there.
    Yeah, I highly doubt that getting infected with Covid-19 is a cure for PFS. I don’t see how a viral infection that goes after the lungs, etc, can have any positive health effects - best case scenario with Covid is that you have no or minor symptoms and then go back to however you were before you got Covid.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jado View Post
    I just tried it this morning. I took 6 drops, and it actually seemed to work about 10 minutes after taking it. Then I started to feel slightly more anxious. It's 1mg per drop, so maybe 6mg was a little too much to start?? It's has an inverted U-shaped dose-effect curve, which is a fancy way to say, if you take too much you get the exact opposite effect you were looking for. Also, there are tons of guys on raypeat who have tried it. It's not to unlike the 5a-DHP guys were taking a while back - I think CD even gave that a try. Joe's right, they have to say that for legal reasons. Otherwise they'd be dealing illegal drugs.
    Cool, let me know how it goes. I mostly wanted to make sure I was focusing on the correct product.

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