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  1. #21
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanrecovering View Post
    I realized tongkat Ali is a aromatase inhibitor, which likely crashed my already tanked estrogen and maca finished the job. Which is why my skin/subcutaneous fat (things modulated by estrogen) worsened. I'm really insecure of wrinkles under my eyes when smiling.
    I'm doing the protocol herb free now. Did carnivore OMAD for a few days to promote some gut cleansing and autophagy. Getting back into normal paleo and will do everything else.
    I've never had anyone crash that bad from any herbs that were recommended. Are some herbs better for some people then others, sure, but none of them are going to decimate you. They wouldn't be recommended if that was even the case. Typically for the guys that don't respond favorably to some herbs, it's recommended they simply chose another one and stop taking the ones that don't sit right with them.

    Carnivore diet, while it can have it's place, isn't going to be as cleansing as fruit and veggies.

    Tongkat is more then just an AI. Even the Ai properties it has isn't enough to crash you. You'd get more benefit from it then not. Maca.....that one can be tricky for some guys. Some love it, some hate it. Tongkat is tried and true.

    You're doing yourself a disservice by excluding the herbs as it's a huge component of getting your hormones sorted.

    If you're not already, I would suggest taking pine pollen daily, as it has DHEA as one of it's constituents which helps the body regulate ALL hormones. If he shou wu isn't in your line up, it should be as well as that is another one that modulates estrogen.
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 03-28-2023 at 09:41 AM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  2. #22
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    Update: Have been on TMO without herbs/supplements and breathing exercises (need to start this) for around a month and a half.
    -Cold showers make me feel really good after, definitely increases energy and awareness
    -When I eat anything non-paleo or edge/masturbate at all I get the twitches and mild brain fog
    -The few times that I have ejaculated I feel mini crashes in the following days
    I think I've been improving a bit. My under eyes look a bit less hollow, face gained some weight, body odor is more normal, twitches lessening. However, I am in a downswing I think since a couple days ago and have the clogged ear feeling, some twitches, some anxiety/brain fog etc. I think ill incorporate LEH horny goat weed soon and do a very small dose and see how I feel.

  3. #23
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    Its been a couple months since my last post.
    April was a good month for me, I felt not so bad and wasn't at all worsening. I was able to masturbate once a week with no issue and was putting on a ton of muscle mass. I also had a few day fluctuation where I had bad shaking anxiety and then it passed. I know fluctuations are a good sign. I was doing everything in tmo except herb rotation due to previous tongkat and maca issues.

    In May things fell off the wagon. At the start of the month I masturbated once and was fine, but then again a few days later and had a moderate crash (hourglass dick, aching in temples and biceps where I've previously lost subcutaneous fat, varicocele aching, twitches, anxiety, etc., and weirdly that DHT mpb itch in my crow for a couple days) These would last a few days and then stop and then come back a few days later with even small things such as releasing precum from simply being turned on. I only fully orgasmed once in may, but any little release of precum had me in a little crashing cycle with those aches and it was incredibly frustrating. It made me scared to get any sort of boner throughout my day. I was on full NoFap for the month aside from small edging here and there. Ill admit though that I had around 6 cheat meals throughout the month as I went out a lot with friends and it was hard to pass up. Ive since locked it down.

    Last week I started an internship and was very nervous the first day. It made me realize just how bad my anxiety is from pfs as I was shaking hard when talking in front of a group of 10ish people. I felt myself crash hard on that first day within minutes of the public speaking. My varicocele was aching bad, nipples ached, my scalp felt like it was on fire and was shedding (mpb itch x20), twitches and aches all over, and lost more subcutaneous fat and/or muscle all over (particularly in legs and forearms). Since then those aches have settled and the scalp itch lessened, but it flares up when I feel any amount of stress at work. For example, i spoke to my boss and felt mildly nervous and within a minute my scalp had that burning sensation and has been shedding in the hairline and crown the last few hours. This is just absurd and I'm at a loss.

    Its hard to stay positive when i'm so sensitive to any amount of stress or ejaculation and keep crashing. Stability is needed to keep a productive mindset. And I don't get how my scalp burning coincides with other crash symptoms, as that's a sign of dht spiking, yet all my other symptoms seem like low estrogen and testosterone symptoms.
    I'm doing a 2 day fast to clear out some toxins and will extend it if possible, perhaps will extend it with juicing if I feel weak at work.

    Any guidance would be helpful, as well as anyone knowing what's up with my scalp or how this sensitivity with stress and precum can be dealt with. Particularly at work where my anxiety is sky high
    Last edited by ethanrecovering; 06-20-2023 at 01:20 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanrecovering View Post
    Its been a couple months since my last post.
    April was a good month for me, I felt not so bad and wasn't at all worsening. I was able to masturbate once a week with no issue and was putting on a ton of muscle mass. I also had a few day fluctuation where I had bad shaking anxiety and then it passed. I know fluctuations are a good sign. I was doing everything in tmo except herb rotation due to previous tongkat and maca issues.

    In May things fell off the wagon. At the start of the month I masturbated once and was fine, but then again a few days later and had a moderate crash (hourglass dick, aching in temples and biceps where I've previously lost subcutaneous fat, varicocele aching, twitches, anxiety, etc., and weirdly that DHT mpb itch in my crow for a couple days) These would last a few days and then stop and then come back a few days later with even small things such as releasing precum from simply being turned on. I only fully orgasmed once in may, but any little release of precum had me in a little crashing cycle with those aches and it was incredibly frustrating. It made me scared to get any sort of boner throughout my day. I was on full NoFap for the month aside from small edging here and there. Ill admit though that I had around 6 cheat meals throughout the month as I went out a lot with friends and it was hard to pass up. Ive since locked it down.

    Last week I started an internship and was very nervous the first day. It made me realize just how bad my anxiety is from pfs as I was shaking hard when talking in front of a group of 10ish people. I felt myself crash hard on that first day within minutes of the public speaking. My varicocele was aching bad, nipples ached, my scalp felt like it was on fire and was shedding (mpb itch x20), twitches and aches all over, and lost more subcutaneous fat and/or muscle all over (particularly in legs and forearms). Since then those aches have settled and the scalp itch lessened, but it flares up when I feel any amount of stress at work. For example, i spoke to my boss and felt mildly nervous and within a minute my scalp had that burning sensation and has been shedding in the hairline and crown the last few hours. This is just absurd and I'm at a loss.

    Its hard to stay positive when i'm so sensitive to any amount of stress or ejaculation and keep crashing. Stability is needed to keep a productive mindset. And I don't get how my scalp burning coincides with other crash symptoms, as that's a sign of dht spiking, yet all my other symptoms seem like low estrogen and testosterone symptoms.
    I'm doing a 2 day fast to clear out some toxins and will extend it if possible, perhaps will extend it with juicing if I feel weak at work.

    Any guidance would be helpful, as well as anyone knowing what's up with my scalp or how this sensitivity with stress and precum can be dealt with. Particularly at work where my anxiety is sky high
    How are you getting on with Meditation, breathing, taking calming walks in nature, cold showers part of the protocol?
    Please don’t be offended, but I think you’re struggling psychologically at this stage of your recovery and I think you really need to get control of your mind. Until you do you’re going to be stuck in this stressed fight or flight state. You’re over analysing every step. Why not take some of the herbs? The ones that help calm you, adding one at a time.
    Honestly I think you just need to do a big mind reset, get on the protocol 100% and stop questioning and researching your condition, but accept where you are, but give yourself massive belief your going to recover.
    You will get there Ethan, but you really do need to adopt this positive mindset, no mater how difficult it may seem.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjw1999 View Post
    How are you getting on with Meditation, breathing, taking calming walks in nature, cold showers part of the protocol?
    Please don’t be offended, but I think you’re struggling psychologically at this stage of your recovery and I think you really need to get control of your mind. Until you do you’re going to be stuck in this stressed fight or flight state. You’re over analysing every step. Why not take some of the herbs? The ones that help calm you, adding one at a time.
    Honestly I think you just need to do a big mind reset, get on the protocol 100% and stop questioning and researching your condition, but accept where you are, but give yourself massive belief your going to recover.
    You will get there Ethan, but you really do need to adopt this positive mindset, no mater how difficult it may seem.
    Hey Mjw, thanks for the response.
    I'll admit I havent really taken the breathing/meditation part seriously and only have been on it for the last week. Cold showers and walks i do, as well as the diet and lifting. I agree, I definitely havent mentally relaxed and maybe the stress is what keeps me in this crash state.
    The herbs just freak me out so much. Ive heard horror stories with cistanche, ashwagandha, and tribulus. As well as my own experiences with small crashes in the days following tongkat and maca. I do take magnesium glycinate before bed though. Ill look into the list more and see about some of the very mild calming ones.
    I appreciated this message, thanks man.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanrecovering View Post
    Hey Mjw, thanks for the response.
    I'll admit I havent really taken the breathing/meditation part seriously and only have been on it for the last week. Cold showers and walks i do, as well as the diet and lifting. I agree, I definitely havent mentally relaxed and maybe the stress is what keeps me in this crash state.
    The herbs just freak me out so much. Ive heard horror stories with cistanche, ashwagandha, and tribulus. As well as my own experiences with small crashes in the days following tongkat and maca. I do take magnesium glycinate before bed though. Ill look into the list more and see about some of the very mild calming ones.
    I appreciated this message, thanks man.
    I know exactly how you feel Ethan. My head was completely messed up. But when I realised how much damage the negative mind was having on my body and every day functioning, that was the day I switched over to working on positivity and belief. The body listens to the mind. So send it a positive message, a message of belief.

    I’ve been totally messed up too, but my recovery is real close now and I’ll be posting soon. I’m at one of the happiest stages of my life ever right now! I’m 14 months into the protocol. I’m starting to think my ordeal with Pfs was a blessing I feel that good!

    You can do the same! You’re young and will respond well. Im 48 in a few months, so if I can then so can you.

    Just do a big positive mental reset and fill yourself with belief, you will be fine.

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