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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
    Probably just an up and down man.

    You have no idea how often I tried to link a negative reaction to something I made. I am the king of useless micro-analyzing. 95% of the time the problems just went away in a couple days or a week.

    A big challenge of the protocol is staying composed when the ship starts to shake, not looking for every explanation and not trying new supplements and shit. It's a good thing if you didn't change anything and your symptoms change, it means you're doing something.

    Only exception would be keeping a diary when you introduce new foods or new herbs, to notice any trends. Everybody is different in that regard
    Yeah I didn’t switch up anything but eat a good sized meal, but I don’t have problems with carbs or any food sensitivity for that manner. I work in inside office sales and it may be an eye strain but I’ve also built up anxiety before starting fast so it’s probably playing a part

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Good post.
    Obviously Not Tying to nit pick symptoms but any input if the recommended sleep supps aren’t working ? I very well may be having anxiety but since yesterday when I close my eyes , the eye lids never want to stay shut. Once they open due to discomfort while the heart palpitations come. Is there additional trick to solve the issue like heavier dosage ? I’m hoping it’s not a brain or eyelid nerve injury and I have to deal with these docs..

    If I could solve sleep everything else would be a piece of take (knock on wood)
    Last edited by AltRoute; 01-24-2022 at 05:19 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AltRoute View Post
    Obviously Not Tying to nit pick symptoms but any input if the recommended sleep supps aren’t working ? I very well may be having anxiety but since yesterday when I close my eyes , the eye lids never want to stay shut. Once they open due to discomfort while the heart palpitations come. Is there additional trick to solve the issue like heavier dosage ? I’m hoping it’s not a brain or eyelid nerve injury and I have to deal with these docs..

    If I could solve sleep everything else would be a piece of take (knock on wood)
    Discipline and routine. Are you going to bed at the same time every night? Are you going outside and getting 30 minutes of light when you wake up in the morning? Are you avoiding screens of all kinds at least an hour before bed? Are you using your bed solely for sleeping and sex?

    I think that most supplements are bandaids when it comes to sleep. And then a lot of guys become dependent on them and never address the fundamental issues that are really driving their insomnia.

    I was a perfect sleeper prior to PFS, and then overnight, I wasn’t anymore. I’d wake up EXACTLY four hours after falling asleep and then would toss and turn every hour after that. I also had the sleepless nights that are unavoidable at first with PFS. Even after loading melatonin XRs and whatever other shit I thought would help, ultimately, it was developing a sleep routine, getting light in the morning, and avoiding screens before bed that brought me to where I am now. It probably took 2-3 months to really establish before I started falling asleep quickly and sleeping through the night. One of the best things I ever did.

    I never had any issues keeping my eyelids shut, but I did frequently have a weird experience where I would see strobe-like bright flashes of muffled light, like I was looking into a thunderstorm cloud or moving through one tunnel after another really fast, until I fell asleep. It would also seem very bright at times, like I was looking directly into a light with my eyes shut, even though my room was completely blacked out. Shit sucked. I kind of just accepted it and eventually it passed like everything else.
    Last edited by Ratchet_V2; 01-25-2022 at 01:04 AM.

  4. #24
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 AltRoute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchet_V2 View Post
    Discipline and routine. Are you going to bed at the same time every night? Are you going outside and getting 30 minutes of light when you wake up in the morning? Are you avoiding screens of all kinds at least an hour before bed? Are you using your bed solely for sleeping and sex?

    I think that most supplements are bandaids when it comes to sleep. And then a lot of guys become dependent on them and never address the fundamental issues that are really driving their insomnia.

    I was a perfect sleeper prior to PFS, and then overnight, I wasn’t anymore. I’d wake up EXACTLY four hours after falling asleep and then would toss and turn every hour after that. I also had the sleepless nights that are unavoidable at first with PFS. Even after loading melatonin XRs and whatever other shit I thought would help, ultimately, it was developing a sleep routine, getting light in the morning, and avoiding screens before bed that brought me to where I am now. It probably took 2-3 months to really establish before I started falling asleep quickly and sleeping through the night. One of the best things I ever did.

    I never had any issues keeping my eyelids shut, but I did frequently have a weird experience where I would see strobe-like bright flashes of muffled light, like I was looking into a thunderstorm cloud or moving through one tunnel after another really fast, until I fell asleep. It would also seem very bright at times, like I was looking directly into a light with my eyes shut, even though my room was completely blacked out. Shit sucked. I kind of just accepted it and eventually it passed like everything else.
    Yeah I’ve been on top of everything in regards to sleep prep and routine. Last night was much better (6-7 hours). I was just disappointed I was making strides in the sleep department even with consuming 2-3 cups of Coffees a day and then bam back to crap. Just a downswing I’ll be fine

    - - - Updated - - -

    Decided to go through with water fast now, currently on Day 2. Hoping to go 5 days, maybe 7, and then get a quick refeed going along and then back to weight/hiit training. Stay strong

  5. #25
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    CD quick question.. before the fast in the month I was full throttle on protocol, I’ve been carb backloading after regular lifting days. I noticed on TMO that carbs were strictly under the heavy lifting portion. Once I get off my fast/ refeed, is it ok to still carb load on regular workout days or would you consider it a make or break in recovery? I was in the mix of transitioning to heavy lifts before I hopped on WF
    Last edited by AltRoute; 01-25-2022 at 02:16 PM.

  6. #26
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AltRoute View Post
    CD quick question.. before the fast in the month I was full throttle on protocol, I’ve been carb backloading after regular lifting days. I noticed on TMO that carbs were strictly under the heavy lifting portion. Once I get off my fast/ refeed, is it ok to still carb load on regular workout days or would you consider it a make or break in recovery? I was in the mix of transitioning to heavy lifts before I hopped on WF
    Not make or break, but backloading is HUGE concerning general physical development, which in turn, helps general recovery, so up to you. The heavier you lift, the more you should backload, etc.

    I had the eyelid thing too......your brain just isn't ready yet....but EVERYTHING that Ratchet said was dead on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchet_V2 View Post
    Discipline and routine. Are you going to bed at the same time every night? Are you going outside and getting 30 minutes of light when you wake up in the morning? Are you avoiding screens of all kinds at least an hour before bed? Are you using your bed solely for sleeping and sex?

    I think that most supplements are bandaids when it comes to sleep. And then a lot of guys become dependent on them and never address the fundamental issues that are really driving their insomnia.

    I was a perfect sleeper prior to PFS, and then overnight, I wasn’t anymore. I’d wake up EXACTLY four hours after falling asleep and then would toss and turn every hour after that. I also had the sleepless nights that are unavoidable at first with PFS. Even after loading melatonin XRs and whatever other shit I thought would help, ultimately, it was developing a sleep routine, getting light in the morning, and avoiding screens before bed that brought me to where I am now. It probably took 2-3 months to really establish before I started falling asleep quickly and sleeping through the night. One of the best things I ever did.

    I never had any issues keeping my eyelids shut, but I did frequently have a weird experience where I would see strobe-like bright flashes of muffled light, like I was looking into a thunderstorm cloud or moving through one tunnel after another really fast, until I fell asleep. It would also seem very bright at times, like I was looking directly into a light with my eyes shut, even though my room was completely blacked out. Shit sucked. I kind of just accepted it and eventually it passed like everything else.
    Good one^^^^^^
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 01-26-2022 at 03:03 PM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Not make or break, but backloading is HUGE concerning general physical development, which in turn, helps general recovery, so up to you. The heavier you lift, the more you should backload, etc.

    I had the eyelid thing too......your brain just isn't ready yet....but EVERYTHING that Ratchet said was dead on.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Good one^^^^^^
    Sorry for misunderstanding I meant I’ve been carb backloading even in normal workouts, not the heavy heavy ones as was outlined in the TMO. I’m planning on to moving onto that area though soon but that response answered my question. Thanks

  8. #28
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AltRoute View Post
    Sorry for misunderstanding I meant I’ve been carb backloading even in normal workouts, not the heavy heavy ones as was outlined in the TMO. I’m planning on to moving onto that area though soon but that response answered my question. Thanks
    Well, I mean, you CAN, if you like......backload before EVERY workout. It all depends on how you look and feel, which are the two things that you use to judge your carb intake. If you feel good, look nice and tight all over, etc, then sounds good. If you have extra "jiggliness" and softness to you then maybe you'll want to back down.....

    When your physique is how you want it BF% wise, and you do a nice fat backload the night of the day you had a big lift, you wake up the next morning and your muscles are noticeably fuller, plump and you look extra shredded and big.

    I just went back and was rereading...something I do when I have time, and I was very shocked to see you describe the bright light when your eyes were shut......I had this too but I don't think it has ever been broughten up here before!! I don't list ALL of what my symptoms were because I don't want to "put something" in someone's head.....

    I used to suggest to the Non-believers to simply find me on PH, and you can see the whole thing unfold in a time stamped manner.....something no one ever took me up on because then it would destroy their false thoughts about me. Point being is I think someone would only know all of my symptoms if they went back and looked.
    Last edited by Cdsnuts; 01-26-2022 at 10:00 PM.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  9. #29
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 AltRoute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cdsnuts View Post
    Well, I mean, you CAN, if you like......backload before EVERY workout. It all depends on how you look and feel, which are the two things that you use to judge your carb intake. If you feel good, look nice and tight all over, etc, then sounds good. If you have extra "jiggliness" and softness to you then maybe you'll want to back down.....

    When your physique is how you want it BF% wise, and you do a nice fat backload the night of the day you had a big lift, you wake up the next morning and your muscles are noticeably fuller, plump and you look extra shredded and big.

    I just went back and was rereading...something I do when I have time, and I was very shocked to see you describe the bright light when your eyes were shut......I had this too but I don't think it has ever been broughten up here before!! I don't list ALL of what my symptoms were because I don't want to "put something" in someone's head.....

    I used to suggest to the Non-believers to simply find me on PH, and you can see the whole thing unfold in a time stamped manner.....something no one ever took me up on because then it would destroy their false thoughts about me. Point being is I think someone would only know all of my symptoms if they went back and looked.
    Thanks CD, yeah I love the backloads. Can’t believe I never did that when I was weight lifting prior to this.

  10. #30
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    About to wrap up a 6 day water fast tomorrow. Overall I’ve had the mental clarity as sharp and clear as pre PFS. Slight eye floaters I had mostly went away. Would of went longer since I felt great but have been feeling very light headed these last couple days no mater how much water I pound down. After doing both types of cleanses I def recommend the water fast.

    My question about the refeed , as a month and a half ago when I finished the juicing, Mr Turnover mentioned to stArt with fruit day 1, fruit and veggies day 2, and then starting to incorporate regular foods on 3 and beyond. Does that same refeed process apply for WF or is it different ? Not trying to get refeeding syndrome lol

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