So you're saying 'in laymans terms; running Saw Palmetto won't weaken the effect of Androhard or similar. This is of particular importance to me as Saw P really helps re peeing at night. I take it all year round.
So you're saying 'in laymans terms; running Saw Palmetto won't weaken the effect of Androhard or similar. This is of particular importance to me as Saw P really helps re peeing at night. I take it all year round.
I would tend to agree with this. Although I'm on the fence about Low DHT + Any estrogen, as if DHT was low antagonization of Estro wouldn't be balanced correctly, which could lead to issues. We all know that we need some Estrogen for things to work correctly, but that is some estrogen in a correctly balanced hormonal environment. I don't have facts to back that last statement up, just my opinion based on my studies.
Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"
This^^^^^^^^^yes. What I should have said was DURING the cycle, not after. That is what I don't understand. Based on all of this, how could someone have prostate issues during the DHT cycle.
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That is correct. It is simply past the point of being able to do anything to exogenous substances. UNLESS there is some other mechanism of action that is unknown or undocumented. (with saw palmetto) You are your best guinea pig.
Last edited by Cdsnuts; 04-22-2014 at 08:06 AM.
Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"
All advice given is for entertainment value only. And it's free. Take it for what it's worth.
sounds good
In all fairness, I was expecting to hear disagreement..not calling me or anyone out, we are all a close knit group, so I'd rather think of it as a friendly discussion to try and figure out what the deal is...no one here, myself included can say for a 100% fact what it is..we can simply give our beliefs and experiences as to why
For one, this is so complex of an understanding and for 2 there is such a lack of research in the area, that likely if and when it is determined it will be trial and error by a bunch of bodybuilders LOL..which is the way it often has happened.
So why do I believe based on the above information that Saw Palmetto will reduce the effectiveness of EPI ANDRO compounds?
Saw Palmetto contains fatty acids that can inhibit the spread of testosterone. This can deter testosterone from converting into DHT. Saw Palmetto hinders the binding of DHT to androgen receptors
DHT also binds to other receptors, for example at the hair follicle, and this is why it is theorized to weaken, etc..
So in lamens terms..lets say your body is getting DHT from a shot, a pill, a transdermal, or your body was making it on its own. The structure, even if Epi andro is (5-AR) reduced (which I cannot say is true or not) is still considered a DHT molecule..no matter when where or how it happens.
If the theory that it binds to a receptor is true, then when saw palmetto or finasteride enter the system, they also work by adhering to dht that is present at the receptor and eliminating it.
The issue with people having prostate issues while on DHT, again, to me I would theorize that it is in men with existing issues, enlargement or past abuses of AAS...and it's simply becoming inflammed once again, and/or estrogen levels being high are also part of the mix.
None of the younger guys or new guys to AAS/PH have once told me of weak urine streams/sexual issues, etc..but 75% or more of the guys who have abused AAS for years, or PH's, or that were even on long term HRT have told me of some of these issues.
It is very very difficult to make full sense of.
As another example, look at Epistane (Havoc)...in theory that is used to treat and prevent gyno in normal males, or in males using AAS, etc..Now in theory, it is said that it cannot convert, etc, etc..but I can tell you for a fact I have run probably 20+ guys on Epistane and maybe in 25-50% they had issues with pregyno etc...
What I will say is that this is certainly a great topic to discuss with all of you, since we can respectfully go back and forth..
If we were anywhere else, people would be rude, name calling, etc, etc...
What I will say is my theory,is my "belief" of how the mechanism works from my understanding of DHT and it's application. I can't say for a fact I am 100% correct But I absolutely believe that saw palmetto and finasteride weaken the effects of the Epiandro compound aka stanolone aka DHT. To what extent?? I cannot say.
Last edited by WesleyInman; 04-22-2014 at 10:03 AM.
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ok my last time saying it
love this forum
Last edited by ctAL; 04-22-2014 at 12:49 PM.
Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"