Strato's road to recovery

[strato]

First PCT Period - Almost 4 Weeks In - June 2023

Hey fellas, it's been hell of a tough time and whirlwind since my last update. This post is sharing what happened to me in my first PCT period post my first 5 week UltraHard cycle.

Firstly, what I am glad to report is that the positive effects of my first cycle have decently stuck, albeit not nearly as strongly as when I was on cycle. Right now, I feel about 65-70% recovered, whereas on cycle maybe 75-80% recovered (at least on the peak days).

For the first 3 days after I stopped my first cycle, I slowly felt me PFS symptoms creeping back in with increasing extremity. These were primarily neurological PFS symptoms as I hadn't noticed a heap of sexual benefits on cycle so there wasn't much difference here once I hopped off.

Across day 1, I noticed my mind racing a bit more. I started feeling more unrest in myself, like something was off and like I was free-falling a bit through reality. By day 3 post cycle, it was like all my PFS had come back in so strong I became beside myself with a feelings of impending doom that consumed me. My mind was racing uncontrollably, unable to stop. I was fidgeting and synapsing up the walls so to speak. Towards the evening of day 3, I was at my girlfriend's how an basically had a borderline panic attack hit me. I had to sit on her couch in the living room, holding my head in my hands, my feet pulsing against the ground, taking deep breaths over and over to keep it together. The sensation I was going through was as if my brain had been put in a straight jacket and locked in a dark room. It was as if it was in state of despair, totally unable to generate anything but negative thoughts or free itself from a consuming sense of impending doom. It's awful and what I felt like most of time during my worst months post crashing in late 2022.

As I sat on the couch, breathing deeply and trying to steady myself from teetering over the edge, I suddenly felt a series of a 'clicking' sensations happening inside of my brain. It was as a set of switches were getting 'flicked on' and as this happened, it was as if my brain somehow kicked itself back into action (metaphorically breaking one arm free from the straight jacket it was in) and started generating the release of good feeling chemicals again. As this happened, the intense neurological sides subsided super quickly and an immediate state of equilibrium and relief took over. This was not merely a mental shift as if I had something to do with it by changing my mindset or something. No, this felt like a physical/chemical shift inside my brain's functioning itself.

I'm not sure what the hell happened here - looking back, the broscience explanation I have come up with is that once the I stopped the prohormones and thus stopped synthetically feeding my body and mind the right chemicals, everything slowly got depleted until it tripwired my brain and kicked it into an emergency gear where it starting doing everything it could to function and produce all the right chemicals etc. to create the equilibrium it was previously in again, albeit this time self-generated and not synthetically from the prohormones. Whatever it was, suffice to say I was deeply relieved as I feared that I had lost completely all that I had positive recovery I had gained from the first cycle run and was regressing straight back into the 'fighting for dear life in every second mode' that I had been struggling through daily for over 10months with PFS. Thankfully, this was not the case and once this sensation of my brain 'clicking' back into gear happened, the state of relative relief and equilibrium stuck on its own all throughout the rest of this first PCT period.

However, as more days and weeks of PCT have passed, I realized that I have definitely dipped into a sort of midway point between my terrible state before my first cycle and the much better state I had been in on cycle (which I felt about 75% recovered at its peak). So I'm situated somewhere in between both of those points and as it turned out, this current state I'm in is still a major ordeal to function through. Primarily, my brain has gone back to feeling constant raciness, lack of focus, and more restless and uncontrollable. My brain fog, lower moods and motivations have all come back in again too, and generally I felt like I am still far from functioning as my normal self again - although still better than before the cycle for sure as the sense of 'something being profoundly not right in myself or the world' that was with me in every moment pre-cycle has permanently gone (so this is an enormous win).

To make matter worse, I felt totally asexual for literally 3 weeks straight of PCT. This was definitely the biggest difference to on cycle in which I felt for the most part more connected to my dick in sensation, and like I had a more functioning libido. This was wiped to zero again and it was disconcerting but I put up with it as best I could. I freaked out a bit and masturbated a couple of time to porn during the first week which was foolish as I think this further played a part in making my sexual downswing and crash worse than it could have otherwise been. I was having issues with my girlfriend at this time and so this was another reason I turned to the porn/masturbating pleasure as a relief from all this (which was still a big mistake for me at this point in my recovery and I should have known better and been stronger).

There were also a number things that happened to me during the first week or two of PCF that deeply challenged me, one thing came in after another after another. The first was I felt like I was definitely low on E after my first cycle. In particular, I wondered the extent this was potentially playing into my asexual state. My dick looked smaller and more feeble than at any point during my whole PFS journey and felt utterly disconnected from my brain during most of PCT (other than when look at porn or with my gf and even then it was really bad to the point I could hardly have sex the one time I tried it in this PCT period). This, along with my low appetite, weakness at the gym, general lethargy and insomnia, all could have definitely linked to low E, obviously in addition to general life stresses and PFS symptoms too. I can't be sure without blood tests which I won't be getting at the moment, so I guess I won't know for sure how much low E played a part in this super current downswing at this time.

The other thing that I let foolishly and completely accidentally happen was that I used a shampoo which had saw palmetto in it. This happened at some point during the first week of PCT and I couldn't believe it. This was an organic shampoo I'd been using for over 5 years (way prior to using finasteride or having any PFS sides whatsoever) that I liked as it seem to help nourish and thicken up my hair. It is kind of expensive though and due to financial predicament I was in due to this whole finasteride fiasco, I simply hadn't reordered any online for almost a year and was using some cheaper stuff instead. So when I reordered recently, it simply slipped my mind (massive rookie mistake) to check the ingredients because I'd used it for so long in the past.

Anyway, I didn't notice any immediate side effects after applying and washing it out of my hair. I'm pretty sure I was feeling pretty asexual already at the time it happened, but there's a chance it the shampoo may have inhibited some 5-ari and contributed to this extended downswing I've been in. It's hard to say as I never had issues with saw palmetto in the past (I took it as a supplement for a couple of weeks a year or two back with no issues + I used this same shampoo for years), but given how crushed my DHT/5-ari is right now and also just how much more sensitive I seem to be these days to all kind of things (with the finasteride being a prime example of this but also included caffeine, sugar, alcohol etc. although I have steered clear from drinking completely of course). So nonetheless, it was an unlucky thing that happened and I immediately binned the shampoo and started researching all potential DHT/5-ari inhibitors to cross-check all other foods or products I'd been using recently to be super sure and I was fine here.

In addition to this, another unlucky thing happened. In the same week this happened (first week of PCT), my brother came over to give me something when I was sitting on the couch watching TV. As he was leaning towards me, he tripped over and shouldered me square in the nose. It was a complete accident, but it has left me with a noticeable bump in the bridge of my nose. This has surprisingly bummed me out and depressed me a lot as I can't help noticing how prominent the bump is and how it has altered my appearance. It cut me deep. I am someone who has struggled to accept his physical appearance in the past (with the hairloss affecting my self-esteem a lot) and so this bump in the nose brought up a lot of that insecurity, sense of worthlessness and even grief for me to process and face. It sounds so stupid I know, but I really liked my nose before. It was straight and aesthetic as hell and really suited my face - to the point my girlfriend and others would comment how beautiful it looked from a side profile angle. But now it is bumped. I feel disfigured and just hurt by life almost that this could happen so suddenly on top of everything else, but I know too that that's life. The only constant is change. I also know this is totally ridiculous, all in my head, blown out of or proportion, only noticeable and important to me, and to love myself and just get over it. Which I will in time. If there's anything that the whole hair loss/finasteride thing had taught me, it's to embrace yourself for who you are. To accept and love yourself from within based on who you are as a person and the fact that you truly are is a completely loved and perfect life-force / consciousness / soul that lives within the body. You are so much more than how you look and how you look makes you no less worthy or loveable at the core of who you truly are. However, even with this knowledge, it still stung my ego. I can't lie, my ego feels it really sucked that this happened. I felt shocked that such a simple bump to the nose like this in an instant can cause this kind of damage. I thought noses were more durable than this, especially seeing UFC/MMA fights etc. Anyway, after everything I've been through in the past year, it felt like rubbing salt into the wound.

As this happened, and in conjunction with my more chaotic PFS symptoms and downswing, I felt myself falling back into that spiraling survival mode again to a degree. I was able to keep going to the gym and run my business fairly well, but I started binging out on sugary lollies again to ease my pain and staying up later a night binging Netflix series and movies to escape. I started simply going into existing mode, just waiting and counting down the days to my next cycle to get more relief and momentum going with my PFS recovery. I know I shouldn't be putting so much emphasis on the prohormones, but I can't help it as I've realized how powerful and essential they seem to be for the recovery of many guys here, including me after my first experience with them.

Finally, in the second week of PCT, I also received the sudden notice that two of my clients on the same day weren't going to continue with business with me (which greatly affected my cash flow) and then I also got a notice from the government on the same too that my overdue tax bill from the previous year was due to be paid a month early - i.e. 3 days away. This tax payment was something I had to get an extension on from last year due to the financial turmoil I was in directly related to PFS/inability to run my business last year. Both of these money things were simply too much for me to bear at the time. I felt so overwhelmed with the predicament I was in and couldn't believe how much of a fucking struggle I've been constantly in. I couldn't believe life could just be so intensely arduous like this, although of course I know billions of people have far more brutal challenges and period of struggle than me, so I don't mean to make light of this either. But man this is not a fun time.

But with all of this happening at once, especially after the ray of hope I experienced during my first UH cycle, when the PFS symptoms, the nose grief, saw palmetto thing, the money/financial situation all hit within a week, I broke down one afternoon earlier this week. My brother consoled me and I was okay and back to a decently empowered mindset the following day. My fundamental nature is to be positive and choose love over fear, trust over despair, strength over bitterness, acceptance over blame, empowerment over victimhood - although sometimes it takes me a bit of huffing and puffing, carrying on and time to get there.

Anyway, I have pulled myself together over the last couple of days and have come up with a plan (I am writing this currently at the 3 and 1/2 weeks mark into my first PCT). I tend to be quite an emotional person, so I know I simply need a bit more time to process and accept the new appearance of my nose (just like the fresh pain of a breakup takes a few weeks to die down, so too with this change in self-identity). Nevertheless, I know I will be fine and this too shall pass; it's just there is quite a bit of acute pain, grief and inner self-esteem issues from my past all surfacing up at once that have been triggered by this, temporarily making this seem like more extreme of an event than I know deep down it really is.

The money issues I will too just have to keep soldiering on with. I currently don't know what I'm going to do and am down to my last savings that will cover only one more month of rent/living expenses, so it is stressful, but that's just part of the challenges and repercussions of this whole PFS thing. I take responsibility for this and will have to harden up to solve this. Somehow, life will provide and I know I will make it through this too.

As for the PFS symptoms, I've made up my mind to jump back on my second UltraHard cycle, starting today. Even as I write all of these words right now, a part of me is aware at just how ungrounded, unhinged and mentally chaotic I sound right now. I know it's not the real me and is hugely linked to the neurological, emotional, chemical, physical symptoms I am still inundated with. I know this, but it's just so hard to snap out of it because it is you. I am currently locked in this chaotic state and at this level of recovery right now. And so I've decided I need to get back on for my second cycle asap to combat this and hopefully spring me upward into another upswing and much more stable level of permanent recovery. Right now, I am simply still battling too hard with life as I still can't simply function.

I know I might be jumping in prematurely with this second cycle. I know 2-3months is the recommended PCT period, not just under 4 weeks. I know the risk of suppressing my E is there and I do still feel low on E (at least I think I am but maybe I'm actually not, again I can't be sure without blood tests) but even still, I'm going to go for it. I've also seen that CD has run a 12-week cycle on a quite high doses of the old Primordial Performance AH V3 stuff and he didn't get suppressed. I've also read countless other threads of guys doing longer cycles and higher doses to good results. I've also realized the common theme is that each cycle, especially after the 2nd or 3rd cycle, really kicks up guys into a state of recovery where life is bearable and livable again. This enable them to keep doing the protocol and wrapping up, bit by bit, the final stages of their recovery to the point of being 100% healed and thriving again. I want to be there and intend to get there.

So all things considered, this is going to be my plan. I am hopping on for my 2nd cycle of UltraHard later today. I am planning to stay a 3 pumps daily, at least for the first few days or week to start with - and then maybe I'll increase the dose from there, we'll have to see. So that's my plan for now. I hope to God that this can really improve my PFS and overall life situation. I can't wait to be done from the horrible (yet highly informative and character building) chapter of my life. On my cycle, I saw that there is truly a light at the end of the tunnel here. I felt it and could sense my old self was there, albeit at an energetic 'distance' away from me right now - but I could still almost feel and remember what it was like to be him again. So I know the light and end to all of this is out there, although it has dimmed quite a bit for me right now. But I will not only get it back, I will become the light again: a healed and thriving person who is living an amazing life and deeply grateful everyday to be functioning, alive and well every day.

[strato]

Hey everyone, coming at you with a pretty positive update on the whole. I've just finished my second Ultra Hard cycle last week - it lasted 5 weeks, from June 9 to July 14. I'm currently on day 13 of my second PCT period.

Cycle Benefits and Positive Life Updates

Mentally I felt for all intents and purposes 'recovered' for the first few weeks of the cycle. I was simply like a normal functioning person for the most part, and at times felt downright confident and in great spirits. I was able to completely get on with normal life without giving PFS much thought at all. This was a huge positive win given how extreme my neurological sides have been! I put 'recovered' in quotation marks though because this state did fade quite a bit from the 4-5 week mark, and overall, I still really know I'm not truly there yet, but on cycle I definitely felt for the first time truly more 'normal and recovered' than 'battling through PFS' - the tides definitely turned further than ever before and it's stuck in this direction for the most part post cycle.

Sexually though, I didn't notice a huge improvement on the cycle but I wasn't too bothered by this either. My erections are still at 65-70% and my libido was only a bit stronger throughout the cycle than prior. I've been so stressed dealing with my personal life though so this time period wasn't exactly a fair representation of where I'm likely at. Even if I was at full health in a time like this, I'd definitely be feeling less sexually focused due to the stress alone. Still I'm clearly not there sexually yet, but expect this to return at a later stage in my recovery.

Emotionally on cycle I definitely felt more tapped in. On one day in about the second week, I suddenly had a moment where I became self-aware of how well I felt. It suddenly just hit me and I just let go and accepted that this was really happening - that I was really truly recovering and going to get my life back and be okay. I suddenly couldn't it help but just starting crying tears of pure gratitude/relief that I'd gotten to this point in my PFS recovery. These intense emotions just hit me out of the blue and it was the first time I cried with actual tears in over a year as I literally was unable to shed tears due to intense emotional numbness in all the months prior. In this moment (and subsequently several others across the cycle), I could really feel 'myself' and my emotions like I remember being able to pre-PFS. They were still less potent on the whole especially by week 4-5, but a big step forward compared to the utter dullness/blunting of my positive emotions a start of the year. More work here yet, but a great win nonetheless to feel my emotional 'connection' to life coming back again.

As mentioned though, for much of the cycle, I was still sorting through lots of personal life challenges (all semi-directly linked to and caused by PFS). Luckily, and with some inner strength, perseverance and some good luck, I was able to positively turnaround all of these challenges.

Number 1, I was able to land 5 new clients in my business during the cycle. This was again such a relief and it has really boosted me financially, enabling me to de-stress and focus on living a more balanced life again for my recovery. I can invest in organic food, sleep better and focus on my work in a more abundant mindset now. Honestly, as I keep mentioning in my updates, money has been so ongoingly tight all year as a direct result of me being unable to run my business due to being sidelined with PFS. Prior to this cycle, I was down to my last ew hundred dollars with several thousand dollars worth of rent/bills/payments all due only weeks away and literally had no idea where my next dollar was going to come in from. I had begun to cut all kinds of costs down, eating lower quality foods (not good in terms of the protocol/recovery etc.) and was even skipping meals to save on unnecessary expenditures. It was crazy stressful on top of everything else. But it's all turned around now and for the first time in a year, looking to stay that was as I finally feel able to function well enough to run my business proficiently again. Anyway, to those of you who have been in crippling financial binds in your life, you'll know how much getting back into a good place financially can lighten your burden - it's night and day. I'll keep going and see though; I'm learning nothing is guaranteed in this PFS fiasco, so I've got to keep on the ball and take one day at a time financially and in my business - this goes for everything in my recovery journey really too.

Number 2, I was able to make significant peace with the 'bump in my nose' incident from pre-cycle (read about this in my post above if you're interested). This was a huge breakthrough for me (really it was a spiritual moment) where I suddenly just overcame it significantly. In a single moment, I felt my inner love for myself surge so powerfully from within and just deeply heal my insecurities. I felt so much unconditional inner worth bursting out of me from this experience, and am now so grateful that it happened on the whole. Admittedly, I'm still a tiny bit shocked/grief stricken that is happened, but this is only the final remnants I'm processing through here. I'm moving on and embracing my infinite inner worthiness now moreso than ever before, based on my character no matter how I look in my appearance and it feels great and deeply grounding and confidence boosting as I ever recall.

Number 3, my girlfriend and I unfortunately broke up a few weeks back. It was only very minorly linked to my ongoing PFS issues though, she never really careed much about this and was super supportive. It was instead largely just due to our clash in values and visions for our lives ahead. She is about 10 years older than me and looking to settle down/start a family etc. and I just wasn't in a place where I could promise that right now. However, we ended on a sweet and genuine note and I am feeling on the whole optimistic and confident about being single and dating again, and just grateful to have had her in my life for the past 5 months during the worst of the worst PFS times. She really saved me and gave me such incredible support and positivity during many hard moments and was a ray of sunshine in my life on the whole. I'll always be grateful to have met and been with her. Onwards and upwards to single life again, I'm keen to get back out there too!

Cycle Cons and Concerns

Firstly, I was a bit foolish or risky (however you want to look at it) when I hopped back onto my 2nd UH cycle after only 3 and a half weeks of PCT in between. I know CD and others recommend 8-12 weeks of PCT, but my mental sides were still so all consuming/bad and my life situation again so demanding/challenging at that point, that I just took the risk and plunged back in earlier. I simply couldn't bear going on with the PFS sides knowing how beneficial the first cycle was, and above and beyond that, literally couldn't keep up with my life challenges with that level of functionality.

It was still premature though as I definitely had quite low E sides post my first cycle (vey low libido, anxiety, achy joints, lethargy) that I could sense needed more time in PCT to fully bounce back. However, starting the 2nd cycle early also really paid off as I shifted up to another level of baseline recovery which has now stuck, so I was correct in going for it in that sense.

So for this 2nd cycle, I had planned on upping my Ultra Hard dose to 4-5pumps daily up from only 3 pumps during my first cycle. This was going well for the first week or so until I accidentally broke the UH bottle air-pump. From that point on, I had no way of dosing the UH accurately and couldn't even dispense out of the bottle except by smacking it out of the bottom into my hand and eyeballing the amount/dosage. Thus, even though I was trying to be as accurate as can be, most days I had no clear idea how many pumps I was using, although a likely guess was generally between 3 - 6 pumps.

However, on one of mornings at around the week 3 mark, I was in a rush to get ready and accidentally hit the bottom too hard and a lot more than 4-5 pumps came out - maybe 7-8 pumps or more worth of substance. I hadn't been experiencing any bad sides effects at all at that point (no significant low E signs), so in the spur of the moment I figured it would be okay and just rubbed the full amount on without much of a second thought (dumb decision) as I then quickly dressed and rushed out for the day.

But later that night, I woke up at 3-4am with an intense feeling of pressure in my head/brain. It felt like my brain was being overly 'flooded', 'saturated' and 'stimulated' by something in a very strange and discombobulating way. Along with this sensation, I heard a constant loud ringing sound in both my ears. I immediately felt overwhelmed by intense anxiety and had to breath and calm myself through it for like 30mins until it passed - not fun at all. I was careful to keep my dosages lower/towards the conservative end for the rest of the cycle and was okay.

But the main most concerning thing that happened to me was when I stopped the second cycle at the 5 week mark. Over the next 2-3 days post cycle, I experienced some really strange sensations and side effects happen as my body/brain was readjusting coming off the UH. Intense head pressure, feelings of the same 'aching brain' and neurological PFS type symptoms, along with hearing sensitivity and loud tinnitus.

At one point on day 1 of PCT, I was walking down the street and someone shut their car door like 10 meters away from me but I heard a loud 'BOOM' inside my ear, as if it was shutting right beside me. My heart lifted from my chest as this happened. It was like I had hearing aids in or something that were turned up way to high. As this continued throughout the first day of PCT< I felt a pit in my stomach of dread/anxiety over the thought that I had somehow destabilized/unsettled my brain with the UH.

Anyway, thankfully over day 2 of PCT, the head pressure and hearing sensitivity went away completely. The constant tinnitus remained quite intensely for the next 10 days of PCT after this. It wasn't too bad during the day and fairly easy to tune out. But at nighttime as I was trying to fall asleep, it became very noticeable especially in my left ear and quite disconcerting. Luckily by about day 13 of PCT (i.e. the day I'm writing this), the tinnitus has gone down even more even though there at times it is still present and there (again especially at nighttime).

I've since been learning that it is likely something to do with either low or high GABA activity, potentially caused by high Epiandrosterone levels from the UH which acts as a GABA antagonist. I've been told by a couple of guys that I should keep giving it more time and that with the right holistically healthy living and more extended PCT, it should all return to normal. So even though I'm not fully free of the tinnitus yet, this does seem to be true and it seems to be getting better bit by bit. But overall, I learnt a lot of lessons here about pushing the envelope when it comes cycles/PCT times. The recommended 2-3month PCT is obviously there for a reason, so I take full responsibility for taking the risk to go in sooner with only 3 weeks of PCT in between.

I now know and feel that an extended PCT/break period between now and my next cycle is necessary. But also, now that I am at a new baseline level of recovery - which thankfully has stuck post cycle to a significant degree as I now only have very minor mental PFS sides - I can now more or less function and live a normal life without being consumed by PFS. So despite the slightly lingering tinnitus and likely low E/sexual sides still present, this new baseline is truly an amazing win mentally and was the whole purpose behind my pre-emptive second cycle. Anyway, I will give it time now and see. I am really hoping that my tinnitus/slight head pressure/PFS mental symptoms will fully clear up with a bit more time. We shall see.

Strangely too, I didn't really get feel any strong low E signs during my second cycle. I didn't get any strong achy joints, anxiety, even worst libido or lethargy this time like I clearly did my first cycle round and was able to easily keep up things like gym/lifting etc. for the whole 5 weeks. I mention this because you'd think the low E sides would have become even more prominent due to how much cumulative UH I'd been on across the 2 cycles with not a whole lot of PCT time in between. So not sure what to make of this - perhaps my E is so low I'm beyond even symptoms and have adjusted to it lol I guess I did, however, have pretty low libido/ED towards throughout and this has continued into the first 2 weeks of my second PCT period, so my E is probably quite low at the moment, or it's perhaps just pure PFS sexual sides/life stress still processing through my system or a combo of both, but who knows for sure. I'm still not going to get a blood test yet - I'm going to see how I go for now and get one instead after my next cycle or so.

Last but not least, I've been really thrown off from taking the PCT herbs/supplements even since learning about the potential disastrous consequences of taking Lion's Mane (see God's earlier thread about this) and the YouTuber Ryan Russo's Lion's Mane induced PFS videos. There's also a whole subreddit dedicated to Lion's Mane crashes to go along with this, although I've stayed away from reading much up on this for now.

I don't know what to make of all this, but it does seem very legit and it scared me from taking any other of the TMO herbs/supplements until I've done my own further research. I've since found various PFS guys claiming everything from tribulus, to vitamin b, to ashwagandha, to weed all having induced PFS / crash-like side effects. I don't know if these are legit or overblown or what to fully make of it all as I haven't been able to separate the signal from the noise yet. For now though, I've stopped taking all PCT herbs and daily vitamins until I do further research and find my own peace of mind with what I think is extremely safe (i.e. no consistent reports of PFS crashes or inducements).

Given that CD recommends Lion's Mane on the TMO website though, I've been quite thrown by this. The lion's mane stuff in particular seems the most serious/legit as I can tell so far (again still not definite even on that though), so if this is the case, then that's a huge oversight on CD's behalf. It makes me think we need to update TMO to even more latest info as PFS understanding and community evolves and grows. I think this is a crucially important attitude. Imagine a guy following CD and doing so well (because most of what CD provides in the protocol truly is amazing no doubt about that) only to severely crash taking lion's mane like 6-12 months in - there's just no need for it. At the very least, there should be warnings on the TMO website about these potential crashes for various herbs - even if it's truly unlikely, guys deserve to know to make the informed decision then themselves. It's better safe than sorry here with how terrible PFS is.

Having said this, I recognize it's definitely the PFS trauma speaking in me right now and playing a role in all of this concern. Obviously I don't want to inadvertently crash myself when I've been struggling for dear life for a whole year just to barely make it to this newfound semi-functional baseline state. I still believe most of the herbs are likely very safe and beneficial on the whole.

Anyway, this has been a bit rattling and confusing, but I will no doubt clarify it for myself soon. I would love CDs/other guys pinions on all this too if you have any. I know most guys are fine on almost all the herbs/supplements, so that's got to count for something despite some of these scarier potential sides/crash effects and outlier cases. Still I won't be tempting fate my though on potentially crash-worthy ones, as my body's general sensitivity to various substances is exactly what seems to have led me to PFS in the first place. Especially still in my body's current more fragile recovering/healing PFS state, this is a no go for me. Not worth the risk at all. I'll let everyone know what I find in my research - which supps I rule out and which I conclude are safe in my next update soon.

Plans And Way Forward

It's a shame that this forum seems pretty much dead at the moment. I'm not holding my breath for much feedback/answers here and am moving over to the PFS discord which seems more active.

These posts are more journaling/logs just for me at this point to cathartically, authentically, vulnerably and in detail express my journey. It really does help my mental health to log and write everything out as part of my process. I do hope it course my help a small number of others too. I'm still very much grateful to CD and overall that this place exists. It's still an absolutely life-saving resource.

Very lastly, I've ordered some Alpha Four by Iconic Formulations and am tentatively planning to run this in combination with UH for my third cycle in future. We will see how this pans out, for now I will keep on keeping on in this PCT period (albeit without the herbs for the time-being until I finish making sense of this particular topic).

[Zerolibido]

Mike case you will rexocer

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OH is dead as well
Kinder if there will ever be a ph dicord.mother couk d never control that

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Good luck you will be fine


filthy orange bastrds want to.machete them to death stick them in a barrel.if l k.and light a match

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Propecianhell is really dead apart from hippy doo f Lazarus and Exswx

I wonder how they can sustain that going forward there is nobody cintributjnhbwhatseiver

[Zerolibido]

Fuck man I had condensing forward completely stable untol.took seroqurl

[Zerolibido]

Should I off

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Myself

[Zerolibido]

Have you consider visiting a medical.professional

[Zerolibido]

I want to ducking kilometre

From ducking recovered to this shut man

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Ducking shrinkage and masquerade wastage Jesus ducking Christ man

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Ducking orange basards want to.dented the cunts

[Zerolibido]

My life is over essentially

[Tommy]

First PCT Period - Almost 4 Weeks In - June 2023

Hey fellas, it's been hell of a tough time and whirlwind since my last update. This post is sharing what happened to me in my first PCT period post my first 5 week UltraHard cycle.

Firstly, what I am glad to report is that the positive effects of my first cycle have decently stuck, albeit not nearly as strongly as when I was on cycle. Right now, I feel about 65-70% recovered, whereas on cycle maybe 75-80% recovered (at least on the peak days).

For the first 3 days after I stopped my first cycle, I slowly felt me PFS symptoms creeping back in with increasing extremity. These were primarily neurological PFS symptoms as I hadn't noticed a heap of sexual benefits on cycle so there wasn't much difference here once I hopped off.

Across day 1, I noticed my mind racing a bit more. I started feeling more unrest in myself, like something was off and like I was free-falling a bit through reality. By day 3 post cycle, it was like all my PFS had come back in so strong I became beside myself with a feelings of impending doom that consumed me. My mind was racing uncontrollably, unable to stop. I was fidgeting and synapsing up the walls so to speak. Towards the evening of day 3, I was at my girlfriend's how an basically had a borderline panic attack hit me. I had to sit on her couch in the living room, holding my head in my hands, my feet pulsing against the ground, taking deep breaths over and over to keep it together. The sensation I was going through was as if my brain had been put in a straight jacket and locked in a dark room. It was as if it was in state of despair, totally unable to generate anything but negative thoughts or free itself from a consuming sense of impending doom. It's awful and what I felt like most of time during my worst months post crashing in late 2022.

As I sat on the couch, breathing deeply and trying to steady myself from teetering over the edge, I suddenly felt a series of a 'clicking' sensations happening inside of my brain. It was as a set of switches were getting 'flicked on' and as this happened, it was as if my brain somehow kicked itself back into action (metaphorically breaking one arm free from the straight jacket it was in) and started generating the release of good feeling chemicals again. As this happened, the intense neurological sides subsided super quickly and an immediate state of equilibrium and relief took over. This was not merely a mental shift as if I had something to do with it by changing my mindset or something. No, this felt like a physical/chemical shift inside my brain's functioning itself.

I'm not sure what the hell happened here - looking back, the broscience explanation I have come up with is that once the I stopped the prohormones and thus stopped synthetically feeding my body and mind the right chemicals, everything slowly got depleted until it tripwired my brain and kicked it into an emergency gear where it starting doing everything it could to function and produce all the right chemicals etc. to create the equilibrium it was previously in again, albeit this time self-generated and not synthetically from the prohormones. Whatever it was, suffice to say I was deeply relieved as I feared that I had lost completely all that I had positive recovery I had gained from the first cycle run and was regressing straight back into the 'fighting for dear life in every second mode' that I had been struggling through daily for over 10months with PFS. Thankfully, this was not the case and once this sensation of my brain 'clicking' back into gear happened, the state of relative relief and equilibrium stuck on its own all throughout the rest of this first PCT period.

However, as more days and weeks of PCT have passed, I realized that I have definitely dipped into a sort of midway point between my terrible state before my first cycle and the much better state I had been in on cycle (which I felt about 75% recovered at its peak). So I'm situated somewhere in between both of those points and as it turned out, this current state I'm in is still a major ordeal to function through. Primarily, my brain has gone back to feeling constant raciness, lack of focus, and more restless and uncontrollable. My brain fog, lower moods and motivations have all come back in again too, and generally I felt like I am still far from functioning as my normal self again - although still better than before the cycle for sure as the sense of 'something being profoundly not right in myself or the world' that was with me in every moment pre-cycle has permanently gone (so this is an enormous win).

To make matter worse, I felt totally asexual for literally 3 weeks straight of PCT. This was definitely the biggest difference to on cycle in which I felt for the most part more connected to my dick in sensation, and like I had a more functioning libido. This was wiped to zero again and it was disconcerting but I put up with it as best I could. I freaked out a bit and masturbated a couple of time to porn during the first week which was foolish as I think this further played a part in making my sexual downswing and crash worse than it could have otherwise been. I was having issues with my girlfriend at this time and so this was another reason I turned to the porn/masturbating pleasure as a relief from all this (which was still a big mistake for me at this point in my recovery and I should have known better and been stronger).

There were also a number things that happened to me during the first week or two of PCF that deeply challenged me, one thing came in after another after another. The first was I felt like I was definitely low on E after my first cycle. In particular, I wondered the extent this was potentially playing into my asexual state. My dick looked smaller and more feeble than at any point during my whole PFS journey and felt utterly disconnected from my brain during most of PCT (other than when look at porn or with my gf and even then it was really bad to the point I could hardly have sex the one time I tried it in this PCT period). This, along with my low appetite, weakness at the gym, general lethargy and insomnia, all could have definitely linked to low E, obviously in addition to general life stresses and PFS symptoms too. I can't be sure without blood tests which I won't be getting at the moment, so I guess I won't know for sure how much low E played a part in this super current downswing at this time.

The other thing that I let foolishly and completely accidentally happen was that I used a shampoo which had saw palmetto in it. This happened at some point during the first week of PCT and I couldn't believe it. This was an organic shampoo I'd been using for over 5 years (way prior to using finasteride or having any PFS sides whatsoever) that I liked as it seem to help nourish and thicken up my hair. It is kind of expensive though and due to financial predicament I was in due to this whole finasteride fiasco, I simply hadn't reordered any online for almost a year and was using some cheaper stuff instead. So when I reordered recently, it simply slipped my mind (massive rookie mistake) to check the ingredients because I'd used it for so long in the past.

Anyway, I didn't notice any immediate side effects after applying and washing it out of my hair. I'm pretty sure I was feeling pretty asexual already at the time it happened, but there's a chance it the shampoo may have inhibited some 5-ari and contributed to this extended downswing I've been in. It's hard to say as I never had issues with saw palmetto in the past (I took it as a supplement for a couple of weeks a year or two back with no issues + I used this same shampoo for years), but given how crushed my DHT/5-ari is right now and also just how much more sensitive I seem to be these days to all kind of things (with the finasteride being a prime example of this but also included caffeine, sugar, alcohol etc. although I have steered clear from drinking completely of course). So nonetheless, it was an unlucky thing that happened and I immediately binned the shampoo and started researching all potential DHT/5-ari inhibitors to cross-check all other foods or products I'd been using recently to be super sure and I was fine here.

In addition to this, another unlucky thing happened. In the same week this happened (first week of PCT), my brother came over to give me something when I was sitting on the couch watching TV. As he was leaning towards me, he tripped over and shouldered me square in the nose. It was a complete accident, but it has left me with a noticeable bump in the bridge of my nose. This has surprisingly bummed me out and depressed me a lot as I can't help noticing how prominent the bump is and how it has altered my appearance. It cut me deep. I am someone who has struggled to accept his physical appearance in the past (with the hairloss affecting my self-esteem a lot) and so this bump in the nose brought up a lot of that insecurity, sense of worthlessness and even grief for me to process and face. It sounds so stupid I know, but I really liked my nose before. It was straight and aesthetic as hell and really suited my face - to the point my girlfriend and others would comment how beautiful it looked from a side profile angle. But now it is bumped. I feel disfigured and just hurt by life almost that this could happen so suddenly on top of everything else, but I know too that that's life. The only constant is change. I also know this is totally ridiculous, all in my head, blown out of or proportion, only noticeable and important to me, and to love myself and just get over it. Which I will in time. If there's anything that the whole hair loss/finasteride thing had taught me, it's to embrace yourself for who you are. To accept and love yourself from within based on who you are as a person and the fact that you truly are is a completely loved and perfect life-force / consciousness / soul that lives within the body. You are so much more than how you look and how you look makes you no less worthy or loveable at the core of who you truly are. However, even with this knowledge, it still stung my ego. I can't lie, my ego feels it really sucked that this happened. I felt shocked that such a simple bump to the nose like this in an instant can cause this kind of damage. I thought noses were more durable than this, especially seeing UFC/MMA fights etc. Anyway, after everything I've been through in the past year, it felt like rubbing salt into the wound.

As this happened, and in conjunction with my more chaotic PFS symptoms and downswing, I felt myself falling back into that spiraling survival mode again to a degree. I was able to keep going to the gym and run my business fairly well, but I started binging out on sugary lollies again to ease my pain and staying up later a night binging Netflix series and movies to escape. I started simply going into existing mode, just waiting and counting down the days to my next cycle to get more relief and momentum going with my PFS recovery. I know I shouldn't be putting so much emphasis on the prohormones, but I can't help it as I've realized how powerful and essential they seem to be for the recovery of many guys here, including me after my first experience with them.

Finally, in the second week of PCT, I also received the sudden notice that two of my clients on the same day weren't going to continue with business with me (which greatly affected my cash flow) and then I also got a notice from the government on the same too that my overdue tax bill from the previous year was due to be paid a month early - i.e. 3 days away. This tax payment was something I had to get an extension on from last year due to the financial turmoil I was in directly related to PFS/inability to run my business last year. Both of these money things were simply too much for me to bear at the time. I felt so overwhelmed with the predicament I was in and couldn't believe how much of a fucking struggle I've been constantly in. I couldn't believe life could just be so intensely arduous like this, although of course I know billions of people have far more brutal challenges and period of struggle than me, so I don't mean to make light of this either. But man this is not a fun time.

But with all of this happening at once, especially after the ray of hope I experienced during my first UH cycle, when the PFS symptoms, the nose grief, saw palmetto thing, the money/financial situation all hit within a week, I broke down one afternoon earlier this week. My brother consoled me and I was okay and back to a decently empowered mindset the following day. My fundamental nature is to be positive and choose love over fear, trust over despair, strength over bitterness, acceptance over blame, empowerment over victimhood - although sometimes it takes me a bit of huffing and puffing, carrying on and time to get there.

Anyway, I have pulled myself together over the last couple of days and have come up with a plan (I am writing this currently at the 3 and 1/2 weeks mark into my first PCT). I tend to be quite an emotional person, so I know I simply need a bit more time to process and accept the new appearance of my nose (just like the fresh pain of a breakup takes a few weeks to die down, so too with this change in self-identity). Nevertheless, I know I will be fine and this too shall pass; it's just there is quite a bit of acute pain, grief and inner self-esteem issues from my past all surfacing up at once that have been triggered by this, temporarily making this seem like more extreme of an event than I know deep down it really is.

The money issues I will too just have to keep soldiering on with. I currently don't know what I'm going to do and am down to my last savings that will cover only one more month of rent/living expenses, so it is stressful, but that's just part of the challenges and repercussions of this whole PFS thing. I take responsibility for this and will have to harden up to solve this. Somehow, life will provide and I know I will make it through this too.

As for the PFS symptoms, I've made up my mind to jump back on my second UltraHard cycle, starting today. Even as I write all of these words right now, a part of me is aware at just how ungrounded, unhinged and mentally chaotic I sound right now. I know it's not the real me and is hugely linked to the neurological, emotional, chemical, physical symptoms I am still inundated with. I know this, but it's just so hard to snap out of it because it is you. I am currently locked in this chaotic state and at this level of recovery right now. And so I've decided I need to get back on for my second cycle asap to combat this and hopefully spring me upward into another upswing and much more stable level of permanent recovery. Right now, I am simply still battling too hard with life as I still can't simply function.

I know I might be jumping in prematurely with this second cycle. I know 2-3months is the recommended PCT period, not just under 4 weeks. I know the risk of suppressing my E is there and I do still feel low on E (at least I think I am but maybe I'm actually not, again I can't be sure without blood tests) but even still, I'm going to go for it. I've also seen that CD has run a 12-week cycle on a quite high doses of the old Primordial Performance AH V3 stuff and he didn't get suppressed. I've also read countless other threads of guys doing longer cycles and higher doses to good results. I've also realized the common theme is that each cycle, especially after the 2nd or 3rd cycle, really kicks up guys into a state of recovery where life is bearable and livable again. This enable them to keep doing the protocol and wrapping up, bit by bit, the final stages of their recovery to the point of being 100% healed and thriving again. I want to be there and intend to get there.

So all things considered, this is going to be my plan. I am hopping on for my 2nd cycle of UltraHard later today. I am planning to stay a 3 pumps daily, at least for the first few days or week to start with - and then maybe I'll increase the dose from there, we'll have to see. So that's my plan for now. I hope to God that this can really improve my PFS and overall life situation. I can't wait to be done from the horrible (yet highly informative and character building) chapter of my life. On my cycle, I saw that there is truly a light at the end of the tunnel here. I felt it and could sense my old self was there, albeit at an energetic 'distance' away from me right now - but I could still almost feel and remember what it was like to be him again. So I know the light and end to all of this is out there, although it has dimmed quite a bit for me right now. But I will not only get it back, I will become the light again: a healed and thriving person who is living an amazing life and deeply grateful everyday to be functioning, alive and well every day.

Hi Strato, thanks for sharing your experience and the road to recovery. Very soon you will be there.

The only thing I see is that you must respect the time between cycles for them to be effective.

I have found that the body reacts well to supplements when it is prepared. In addition to taking them, you have to give the body time, space to recover and return to its balance. I think recovery time is as important as everything else.

Not by supplementing the body more or by doing more cycles you get more results. You have to give it time to get stronger and be able to react to supplements and cycles. Going too far can cause the opposite of what we want.

With the herbs the same. You have to find the amount and the time in which your body reacts strongly to them and does not react negatively.

You are doing it very well. Keep it up.