New Forum Sponsor - Debora Labs

[zubmit]

Just received my first order of Ipamorelin, complete with an MSDS and commercial invoice for L-Carnitine. Fortunately I work at a university so I'm going to do some analysis to see what I actually received.

I'm glad that you stumbled upon this forum at the same time you recieved your ordre from Debora Labs, and what a lucky day, you work at place where you got HPLC and MSDS to analyse your product.

Can't wait to hear the results.

[biology]

I'm glad that you stumbled upon this forum at the same time you recieved your ordre from Debora Labs, and what a lucky day, you work at place where you got HPLC and MSDS to analyse your product.

Can't wait to hear the results.

"MSDS to analyse your product"

Material Safety Data Sheets are not very good at analyzing peptides. However, MALDI-TOF mass spectrometers are. Since we don't have one of those available, I'm going with LC/MS in 50:50 ACN:H2O. HPLC is great for purity, not so much identity unless you have a known sample with which to compare, and even then it's not that great. Do you even know what a chemistry is? Because if you did, you would know also that I would have to set up a method for the HPLC analysis and have a proper column, which can get VERY pricey, which means I'm not going to do that. However, a mass spec analysis can run about $10-$20. So I'm just going to assume it's pure, which, if it's not, will be seen on the LC part of the LC/MS. Then the MS will tell me something about the mass and molecular fragments, which will allow me to elucidate the structure.

I lurked this forum for about a week before ordering. When I got the MSDS (again, that's a Material Safety Data Sheet) for L-Carnitine with my order, I thought "okay, they're shipping it under the guise of a simple amino acid as not to arouse suspicion, or it's L-Carnitine and this business model is a dead end street filled with chumps and suckers, of which I am one."

So I zubmit this to you: if you're going to try attacking someone's credibility, try to know what you're talking about at least half as well as they do. Otherwise you look like an ass.

"MSDS to analyse your product"... thanks for the laugh.

Analysis will be done in a couple of weeks guys, and by that I mean 2-3. I'm in touch with the LC/MS group, but I'm going on vacation next week. If I get it in this week, we'll have results by next week and I'll let you know the following week. If I don't, it will be a few weeks. I'd say keep it dry and in the freezer until then.

[h2s]

Very interested in seeing the results, positive or negative. Each sponsor has to live up to their name here.

As for the invoice, if it shipped internationally, that is probably why. I have made a few orders for 'stuff' from overseas, and it usually has a description and analysis for a completely different compound unrelated to bodybuilding, or at least hormones.

[zubmit]

You have misunderstood what I said. (Or I haven't expressed myself clear) What I mean was, that you need the data in the MSDS to cross check with the results from the HPLC? (Or LC/MS) My english isn't my mother language and I was a bit tired when I wrote. But I'm glad to see that you know what you are doing. I've learned that it is good to be skeptical, so don't take it as an attack, more as a double check up.

Back to waiting.

[biology]

Alright guys, good news and bad news:

Good news: I got the analysis done much sooner than I expected (clearly). The mass spec checks out and shows a strong peak at 712 (M+H, or parent molecule + 1 hydrogen ion), a medium peak at 735 (parent ion + sodium), and a medium-intensity peak at 356.5 (since peaks arise from mass/charge, this is a diprotonated parent molecule, or 2H... basically it's good). It's actually quite similar to the MS on the Debora Labs website - above 400 m/z that is.

Which brings me to the bad news: There are a variety of other peaks of varying intensity, particularly a peak at 387 that I can't identify just now. It is about 1/3 intensity of the 712 peak. My first assumption would be that it's a side product of truncated peptide. That could be removed with chromatography, but it would result in a lower yield and drive up the price I'm sure. All that said and some quick calculations, I would say about 80% purity based upon these results. Which of course makes me question the HPLC report, but I will not be validating that one.

So there's my quick and dirty high tech analysis. Is it Ipamorelin? Most likely - the molecular weight is right, and I would think it would take more work to synthesize a compound of the same molecular weight and properties than to just make the peptide. Is it pure? I don't think so. I would say, yknow, research grade, but not 98%. My only counter argument is that if the velocity was too high, we could be looking at a molecular fragment in that 387 peak. Which LC/MS would have sorted out immediately, but then... not enough time for that

All that said: It is NOT L-Carnitine

If a rep from Debora Labs would like to step in to explain that 387 peak, I would be open to hear it. The method was ESI, solvent system was pure MeOH. I would have done 50:50 ACN:H20, but the ACN was almost out.

[nate3993]

much appreciated info man!

[milehighguy]

um...
so we have someone on the forum that can lab test stuff to confirm ingredient, quality and if it contains other garbage?
is it me or does this seem like it could be of killer use for all kinds of research chems?
or am i just making this all up in my head

[biology]

um...
so we have someone on the forum that can lab test stuff to confirm ingredient, quality and if it contains other garbage?
is it me or does this seem like it could be of killer use for all kinds of research chems?
or am i just making this all up in my head

I wish it were that simple. The university I used to work at would have been a lot easier, but here there are fairly tight controls for what goes in the mass spec lab, and they don't take outside samples anymore. Basically if you're not doing university work, you're not using the mass spec. Between that and not having unlimited funds to buy samples from all suppliers, it's a little more complicated than it may seem at a glance.

If others are more financially set than myself, there are universities that take outside samples. All you really need is a low-res mass spec analysis ($58 from Stanford) SUMS Rates. They will probably want a sequence and estimated molecular weight, all of which Google can find for you. You can probably find good tutorials on mass spec interpretation as well. Or I'd be willing to help read it.

[milehighguy]

I figured as much...didn't think it would be a big production but maybe testing for new or existing sponsors.

Thanks for the info. I may IM you if I decide to run any testing.

[longBallLima]

i say we pool money and have iron, gw and src tested as well