What's your favorite DHT prohormone

[Cdsnuts]

Mine was hands down AH V3. But seeing as that's not available anymore, I'm looking for something similar. Would love to hear what guys are using now that comes close to the old stuff.

I just picked up two tubes of Dermacrine and am looking to stack with that.

[Right Hook]

5-Alpha Test by FRL.

[Cdsnuts]

Thanks. I hear that stuff is super minty fresh.....lol. So much so people get annoyed at having to dose an altoid like pill three times a day......I dont' mind mint, and if it works as good, or as close to good as AH v3, then I'll deal with it.

[nate3993]

I'm gonna say ur best bet is stano at 800+, take with a glass of grapefruit juice. Fuk all these super low dosed epiandrosterone products like MMV3 by LG, or 5-Alpha by FRL. 20mg of epiandrosterone a pill sucks. No matter how good their "delivery" system is.

[Right Hook]

I'm gonna say ur best bet is stano at 800+, take with a glass of grapefruit juice. Fuk all these super low dosed epiandrosterone products like MMV3 by LG, or 5-Alpha by FRL. 20mg of epiandrosterone a pill sucks. No matter how good their "delivery" system is.

I think at this point you're just trolling me. Nonetheless these suggest the delivery system is quite effective:


J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., 1991 vol. 72(5) pp. 1054-9
Sublingual administration of testosterone-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin inclusion complex simulates episodic androgen release in hypogonadal men
Stuenkel, CA; Dudley, RE; Yen, SS
In search of a more physiological testosterone (T) replacement therapy for hypogonadal states, we evaluated an inclusion complex of T with 2-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin (HPBCD). HPBCD enhances T solubility and absorption, but HPBCD is not absorbed. Five hypogonadal men (mean age, 32.4 +/- 2.3 yr) with serum T levels below the normal range were treated in two separate experimental phases with either a 2.5- or 5.0-mg tablet of sublingual (SL) T-HPBCD three times daily for 7 days. Acute pharmacodynamic changes were monitored at baseline and 10, 20, and 40 min and 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 4, and 8 h after administration of the first dose. At the 5-mg dose, a maximal concentration (Cmax) of T (85.4 +/- 11.0 nmol/L) was achieved in 20 min (63 +/- 24-fold increase), followed by a rapid decline to below the normal range (less than 12 nmol/L) at 2 h, with an estimated half-life of decline of 1.87 +/- 0.19 h. The dihydrotestosterone (DHT) Cmax (4.1 +/- 0.5 nmol/L) occurred at 32 +/- 5 min (8.9 +/- 1.3-fold increase) and declined to below the normal range (less than 1.2 nmol/L) after 3 h. The integrated 8 h value for the ratio of T/DHT was 10.0 +/- 1.1, which fell within the normal range. The increment in androstenedione paralleled that in T, and the Cmax (6.8 +/- 0.9 nmol/L) was reached in 24 +/- 4 min (2.3 +/- 0.6-fold increase). Compared to baseline, the Cmax was significantly greater for T (P less than 0.005), DHT (P less than 0.0005), and androstenedione (P less than 0.005). Both estradiol (E2) and estrone (E1) remained in the normal range (less than 200 pmol/L), although the Cmax for E1 was significantly greater than baseline (P less than 0.05). Serum LH levels were suppressed (19.0 +/- 2.6%) at 2 h (P less than 0.05), without a significant change in FSH. During 7 days of treatment, there was no cumulative increase in basal T, DHT, and E2 levels or further decline in LH or FSH levels. There was no change in sex hormone-binding globulin levels. Similar results were observed with the 2.5-mg dose, suggesting that the capacity of SL absorption may be limited to a certain dose of T-HPBCD. The fluctuations in T after SL administration of T-HPBCD resemble endogenous episodic secretion. We conclude that T, complexed with HPBCD, is rapidly absorbed by the SL route and quickly metabolized without sustained elevations of DHT or E2.
Address: Department of Reproductive Medicine, School of Medicine, University of California-San Diego, La Jolla 92093.
Type: Journal article
PMID: 1902483
Full Text

J. Appl. Physiol., 2002 vol. 92(1) pp. 142-6
Acute hormonal response to sublingual androstenediol intake in young men
Brown, GA; Martini, ER; Roberts, BS; Vukovich, MD; King, DS
The effectiveness of orally ingested androstenediol in raising serum testosterone concentrations may be limited because of hepatic breakdown of the ingested androgens. Because androstenediol administered sublingually with cyclodextrin bypasses first-pass hepatic catabolism, we evaluated the acute hormonal response to sublingual cyclodextrin androstenediol supplement in young men. Eight men (22.9 +/- 1.2 yr) experienced in strength training consumed either 20 mg androstenediol in a sublingual cyclodextrin tablet (Sl Diol) or placebo (Pl) separated by at least 1 wk in a randomized, double-blind, crossover manner. Blood samples were collected before supplementation and at 30-min intervals for 3 h after supplementation. Serum hormone concentrations did not change with Pl. Serum androstenedione concentrations were increased (P < 0.05) above baseline (11.2 +/- 1.1 nmol/l) with Sl Diol from 60 to 180 min after intake and reached a peak concentration of 25.2 +/- 2.9 nmol/l at 120 min. Serum free testosterone concentrations were increased from 86.2 +/- 9.1 pmol/l with Sl Diol from 30 to 180 min and reached a peak concentration of 175.4 +/- 12.2 pmol/l at 60 min. Serum total testosterone concentrations increased above basal (25.6 +/- 2.3 nmol/l) from 30 to 180 min with Sl Diol and reached a peak concentration of 47.9 + 2.9 nmol/l at 60 min. Serum estradiol concentrations were elevated (P < 0.05) above baseline (0.08 +/- 0.01 nmol/l) from 30 to 180 min with Sl Diol and reached 0.14 +/- 0.02 nmol/l at 180 min. These data indicate that sublingual cyclodextrin androstenediol intake increases serum androstenedione, free testosterone, total testosterone, and estradiol concentrations.
Address: Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa 50011, USA.
Type: Journal article
PMID: 11744653
Free Full Text (full-text online)

Int. J. Clin. Pract., 2004 vol. 58(11) pp. 1073-80
Striant SR: a novel, effective and convenient testosterone therapy for male hypogonadism
Korbonits, M; Kipnes, M; Grossman, AB
Striant SR (marketed as Striant in the US) is a novel sustained-release mucoadhesive buccal testosterone tablet for the treatment of male hypogonadism. Striant SR restores serum testosterone concentrations to the physiological range within 4 h of application, and steady-state concentrations are achieved within 24 h of twice-daily dosing. In phase III clinical trials, 87-97% of patients using Striant SR achieved 24-h-averaged serum testosterone concentrations within the normal range. In a comparative study, Striant SR was more likely to restore testosterone concentrations to the physiological range than Andropatch. In a small study, Striant SR produced steady-state testosterone concentrations comparable with those achieved with a testosterone gel (50mg testosterone). Striant SR was well tolerated, with a low incidence of adverse events and a low discontinuation rate (3.5%) due to adverse events in phase III studies. Striant SR is an effective, well-tolerated, convenient and discreet treatment for male hypogonadism.

J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., 2004 vol. 89(8) pp. 3821-9
New testosterone buccal system (Striant) delivers physiological testosterone levels: pharmacokinetics study in hypogonadal men
Wang, C; Swerdloff, R; Kipnes, M; Matsumoto, AM; Dobs, AS; Cunningham, G; Katznelson, L; Weber, TJ; Friedman, TC; Snyder, P; Levine, HL
A new mucoadhesive testosterone buccal system (Striant), 30 mg testosterone (T), was applied twice daily in 82 hypogonadal men for 3 months. Serum T, free T, and 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone were measured during this period. T pharmacokinetics were determined from the data obtained during a 24-h sampling at wk 12. Physiological mean serum T concentrations were steady and consistently maintained. The mean percentage of time over a 24-h period that total serum T concentrations were above the lower limit of adult male range was 80.1%. During treatment, mean serum 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone, free T, and estradiol concentrations paralleled serum T. T pharmacokinetics were not significantly affected by body mass index, age, food or beverage, gum abnormalities, or medications known to cause dry mouth. Gum-related adverse events occurred in 16.3% of subjects. Except for three subjects, the gum adverse effects occurred early during treatment, did not cause interruption of treatment, and resolved rapidly and completely. The T buccal system is a novel T formulation that offers a safe, effective, and convenient alternative to existing formulations for physiological T replacement therapy in hypogonadal men.
Address: Department of Medicine, Harbor-University of California, Los Angeles Medical Center and Research and Education Institute, Torrance, California 90509-2910, USA. wang@gcrc.rei.edu

Curr Med Res Opin, 2004 vol. 20(5) pp. 729-38
Short-term pharmacokinetic comparison of a novel testosterone buccal system and a testosterone gel in testosterone deficient men
Dobs, AS; Matsumoto, AM; Wang, C; Kipnes, MS
OBJECTIVE: The primary objective of the study was to compare the percentage of men with mean serum total T (C(ave(0-24))) within normal range during the 24-h pharmacokinetic (PK) sampling period on Days 14 and 15.
METHODS: Treatment with a new testosterone (T) buccal system, (Striant), 30 mg twice daily was compared to a transdermal gel delivery system, (T-gel) [AndroGel 5 g containing 1% (50 mg) T] daily for 14 days in T-deficient men. Safety parameters included laboratory assessments and collection of adverse events. Patients were otherwise healthy T-deficient men with total T
RESULTS: Twenty-six of the 28 patients enrolled (0.93 +/- 0.38 ng/mL) for T-gel, which was greater completed the 24-h PK assessment. Of the evaluable patients, 92.3% of T buccal system and 83.3% of T-gel patients had C(ave(0-24)) within the normal range of 10.4-36.4 nmol/L (3.0-10.5 ng/mL). Mean total T values were not different in the T buccal system group (C(ave(0-24)) 16.7 +/- 4.7 nmol/L; 4.8 +/- 1.4 ng/mL) compared to the T-gel group (C(ave(0-24)) 15.9 +/- 4.8 nmol/L; 4.6 +/- 1.4 ng/mL). All T values returned to baseline levels after the study drug was stopped. Serum LH and FSH levels decreased, and E(2) increased as expected following T administration. Differences in DHT concentrations between treatment groups were significant (p = 0.012) with mean DHT levels on Day 14 of 1.9 +/- 1.4 nmol/L (0.55 +/- 0.42 ng/mL) for the T buccal system and 3.2 +/- 1.3 nmol/L than the upper level of normal (2.9 nmol/L; 0.85 ng/mL). Statistically significant differences were seen in the mean T/DHT ratio on Days 14 and 15 with the T buccal system (9.3) and T-gel (5.0) (normal 9-12) (Day 14, p < 0.00001; Day 15, p < 0.0001). All adverse events were mild to moderate in severity. Three of 12 adverse events significant adverse effects in T-deficient men. The T were considered related to the study drug and included headache (1 for each of the T buccal system and T-gel), and breast pain (T-gel). Summary and conclusions: In this short-term study, the T buccal system produced steady-state T levels comparable to those with T-Gel without buccal system provides an additional safe, effective and convenient option for testosterone replacement therapy in hypogonadal men.

[Cdsnuts]

I'm gonna say ur best bet is stano at 800+, take with a glass of grapefruit juice. Fuk all these super low dosed epiandrosterone products like MMV3 by LG, or 5-Alpha by FRL. 20mg of epiandrosterone a pill sucks. No matter how good their "delivery" system is.

How suppressive is it..... comparatively? One of the reasons I loved AH was that for me, it never shut me down. I'm pretty sure I coulda run a nice long cycle of AH v3 with no PCT.

- - - Updated - - -

I think at this point you're just trolling me. Nonetheless these suggest the delivery system is quite effective:


J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., 1991 vol. 72(5) pp. 1054-9
Sublingual administration of testosterone-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin inclusion complex simulates episodic androgen release in hypogonadal men
Stuenkel, CA; Dudley, RE; Yen, SS
In search of a more physiological testosterone (T) replacement therapy for hypogonadal states, we evaluated an inclusion complex of T with 2-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin (HPBCD). HPBCD enhances T solubility and absorption, but HPBCD is not absorbed. Five hypogonadal men (mean age, 32.4 +/- 2.3 yr) with serum T levels below the normal range were treated in two separate experimental phases with either a 2.5- or 5.0-mg tablet of sublingual (SL) T-HPBCD three times daily for 7 days. Acute pharmacodynamic changes were monitored at baseline and 10, 20, and 40 min and 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 4, and 8 h after administration of the first dose. At the 5-mg dose, a maximal concentration (Cmax) of T (85.4 +/- 11.0 nmol/L) was achieved in 20 min (63 +/- 24-fold increase), followed by a rapid decline to below the normal range (less than 12 nmol/L) at 2 h, with an estimated half-life of decline of 1.87 +/- 0.19 h. The dihydrotestosterone (DHT) Cmax (4.1 +/- 0.5 nmol/L) occurred at 32 +/- 5 min (8.9 +/- 1.3-fold increase) and declined to below the normal range (less than 1.2 nmol/L) after 3 h. The integrated 8 h value for the ratio of T/DHT was 10.0 +/- 1.1, which fell within the normal range. The increment in androstenedione paralleled that in T, and the Cmax (6.8 +/- 0.9 nmol/L) was reached in 24 +/- 4 min (2.3 +/- 0.6-fold increase). Compared to baseline, the Cmax was significantly greater for T (P less than 0.005), DHT (P less than 0.0005), and androstenedione (P less than 0.005). Both estradiol (E2) and estrone (E1) remained in the normal range (less than 200 pmol/L), although the Cmax for E1 was significantly greater than baseline (P less than 0.05). Serum LH levels were suppressed (19.0 +/- 2.6%) at 2 h (P less than 0.05), without a significant change in FSH. During 7 days of treatment, there was no cumulative increase in basal T, DHT, and E2 levels or further decline in LH or FSH levels. There was no change in sex hormone-binding globulin levels. Similar results were observed with the 2.5-mg dose, suggesting that the capacity of SL absorption may be limited to a certain dose of T-HPBCD. The fluctuations in T after SL administration of T-HPBCD resemble endogenous episodic secretion. We conclude that T, complexed with HPBCD, is rapidly absorbed by the SL route and quickly metabolized without sustained elevations of DHT or E2.
Address: Department of Reproductive Medicine, School of Medicine, University of California-San Diego, La Jolla 92093.
Type: Journal article
PMID: 1902483
Full Text

J. Appl. Physiol., 2002 vol. 92(1) pp. 142-6
Acute hormonal response to sublingual androstenediol intake in young men
Brown, GA; Martini, ER; Roberts, BS; Vukovich, MD; King, DS
The effectiveness of orally ingested androstenediol in raising serum testosterone concentrations may be limited because of hepatic breakdown of the ingested androgens. Because androstenediol administered sublingually with cyclodextrin bypasses first-pass hepatic catabolism, we evaluated the acute hormonal response to sublingual cyclodextrin androstenediol supplement in young men. Eight men (22.9 +/- 1.2 yr) experienced in strength training consumed either 20 mg androstenediol in a sublingual cyclodextrin tablet (Sl Diol) or placebo (Pl) separated by at least 1 wk in a randomized, double-blind, crossover manner. Blood samples were collected before supplementation and at 30-min intervals for 3 h after supplementation. Serum hormone concentrations did not change with Pl. Serum androstenedione concentrations were increased (P < 0.05) above baseline (11.2 +/- 1.1 nmol/l) with Sl Diol from 60 to 180 min after intake and reached a peak concentration of 25.2 +/- 2.9 nmol/l at 120 min. Serum free testosterone concentrations were increased from 86.2 +/- 9.1 pmol/l with Sl Diol from 30 to 180 min and reached a peak concentration of 175.4 +/- 12.2 pmol/l at 60 min. Serum total testosterone concentrations increased above basal (25.6 +/- 2.3 nmol/l) from 30 to 180 min with Sl Diol and reached a peak concentration of 47.9 + 2.9 nmol/l at 60 min. Serum estradiol concentrations were elevated (P < 0.05) above baseline (0.08 +/- 0.01 nmol/l) from 30 to 180 min with Sl Diol and reached 0.14 +/- 0.02 nmol/l at 180 min. These data indicate that sublingual cyclodextrin androstenediol intake increases serum androstenedione, free testosterone, total testosterone, and estradiol concentrations.
Address: Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa 50011, USA.
Type: Journal article
PMID: 11744653
Free Full Text (full-text online)

Int. J. Clin. Pract., 2004 vol. 58(11) pp. 1073-80
Striant SR: a novel, effective and convenient testosterone therapy for male hypogonadism
Korbonits, M; Kipnes, M; Grossman, AB
Striant SR (marketed as Striant in the US) is a novel sustained-release mucoadhesive buccal testosterone tablet for the treatment of male hypogonadism. Striant SR restores serum testosterone concentrations to the physiological range within 4 h of application, and steady-state concentrations are achieved within 24 h of twice-daily dosing. In phase III clinical trials, 87-97% of patients using Striant SR achieved 24-h-averaged serum testosterone concentrations within the normal range. In a comparative study, Striant SR was more likely to restore testosterone concentrations to the physiological range than Andropatch. In a small study, Striant SR produced steady-state testosterone concentrations comparable with those achieved with a testosterone gel (50mg testosterone). Striant SR was well tolerated, with a low incidence of adverse events and a low discontinuation rate (3.5%) due to adverse events in phase III studies. Striant SR is an effective, well-tolerated, convenient and discreet treatment for male hypogonadism.

J. Clin. Endocrinol. Metab., 2004 vol. 89(8) pp. 3821-9
New testosterone buccal system (Striant) delivers physiological testosterone levels: pharmacokinetics study in hypogonadal men
Wang, C; Swerdloff, R; Kipnes, M; Matsumoto, AM; Dobs, AS; Cunningham, G; Katznelson, L; Weber, TJ; Friedman, TC; Snyder, P; Levine, HL
A new mucoadhesive testosterone buccal system (Striant), 30 mg testosterone (T), was applied twice daily in 82 hypogonadal men for 3 months. Serum T, free T, and 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone were measured during this period. T pharmacokinetics were determined from the data obtained during a 24-h sampling at wk 12. Physiological mean serum T concentrations were steady and consistently maintained. The mean percentage of time over a 24-h period that total serum T concentrations were above the lower limit of adult male range was 80.1%. During treatment, mean serum 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone, free T, and estradiol concentrations paralleled serum T. T pharmacokinetics were not significantly affected by body mass index, age, food or beverage, gum abnormalities, or medications known to cause dry mouth. Gum-related adverse events occurred in 16.3% of subjects. Except for three subjects, the gum adverse effects occurred early during treatment, did not cause interruption of treatment, and resolved rapidly and completely. The T buccal system is a novel T formulation that offers a safe, effective, and convenient alternative to existing formulations for physiological T replacement therapy in hypogonadal men.
Address: Department of Medicine, Harbor-University of California, Los Angeles Medical Center and Research and Education Institute, Torrance, California 90509-2910, USA. wang@gcrc.rei.edu

Curr Med Res Opin, 2004 vol. 20(5) pp. 729-38
Short-term pharmacokinetic comparison of a novel testosterone buccal system and a testosterone gel in testosterone deficient men
Dobs, AS; Matsumoto, AM; Wang, C; Kipnes, MS
OBJECTIVE: The primary objective of the study was to compare the percentage of men with mean serum total T (C(ave(0-24))) within normal range during the 24-h pharmacokinetic (PK) sampling period on Days 14 and 15.
METHODS: Treatment with a new testosterone (T) buccal system, (Striant), 30 mg twice daily was compared to a transdermal gel delivery system, (T-gel) [AndroGel 5 g containing 1% (50 mg) T] daily for 14 days in T-deficient men. Safety parameters included laboratory assessments and collection of adverse events. Patients were otherwise healthy T-deficient men with total T
RESULTS: Twenty-six of the 28 patients enrolled (0.93 +/- 0.38 ng/mL) for T-gel, which was greater completed the 24-h PK assessment. Of the evaluable patients, 92.3% of T buccal system and 83.3% of T-gel patients had C(ave(0-24)) within the normal range of 10.4-36.4 nmol/L (3.0-10.5 ng/mL). Mean total T values were not different in the T buccal system group (C(ave(0-24)) 16.7 +/- 4.7 nmol/L; 4.8 +/- 1.4 ng/mL) compared to the T-gel group (C(ave(0-24)) 15.9 +/- 4.8 nmol/L; 4.6 +/- 1.4 ng/mL). All T values returned to baseline levels after the study drug was stopped. Serum LH and FSH levels decreased, and E(2) increased as expected following T administration. Differences in DHT concentrations between treatment groups were significant (p = 0.012) with mean DHT levels on Day 14 of 1.9 +/- 1.4 nmol/L (0.55 +/- 0.42 ng/mL) for the T buccal system and 3.2 +/- 1.3 nmol/L than the upper level of normal (2.9 nmol/L; 0.85 ng/mL). Statistically significant differences were seen in the mean T/DHT ratio on Days 14 and 15 with the T buccal system (9.3) and T-gel (5.0) (normal 9-12) (Day 14, p < 0.00001; Day 15, p < 0.0001). All adverse events were mild to moderate in severity. Three of 12 adverse events significant adverse effects in T-deficient men. The T were considered related to the study drug and included headache (1 for each of the T buccal system and T-gel), and breast pain (T-gel). Summary and conclusions: In this short-term study, the T buccal system produced steady-state T levels comparable to those with T-Gel without buccal system provides an additional safe, effective and convenient option for testosterone replacement therapy in hypogonadal men.

Okay fellas.....please....not in this thread. I just want peoples opinions and no dick measuring contests......

[Scope75]

AHv1 was the best!!!!!

1g a day had me dropping fat, holding onto muscle, hard muscles, and libido was threw the roof.
If I could get my hands on more I'd run at 1g a day until I ran out.

[nate3993]

stano is obviously gonna be more supressive than AH. not the same delivery. that being said, it's not gonna shut you down a whole lot.

- - - Updated - - -

plus, if ur gonna do a couple bottles of derma, add the stano, do a mild pct. that's gonna be your best bet.

[nate3993]

and i'm going off of experience. i've tried the mmv3 at 10 doses. that's 200mg of epi. when i wouldn't take the doses with gfj, i noticed a bit less effects. but even with gfj, it was pretty meh.

[USN HM 350Z]

Toss up for me. AH V3 and Prescription nutrition E Spray. I like how fast the E Spray kicked in for me, but I prefer taking pills to doing topicals. I got about the same effect from both products.

I have also used plain old Stano at 1000/day and that was so, so compared to the other two.