For those who have actually used peptides...

[Cdsnuts]

Glad you're back Bro. You've helped me on numerous occasions. Good to see you around.

[olddawg]

my thyroid is actually tuned when I'm not on tren, the tren will slow it that's confirmed by bloods and the doc is always freaking out if I get bloods too closely after a tren cycle. she always wants to increase the meds but I tell her to wait. I did ramp up the Eltroxin to 150mcg over the course of a year or so, that was a while back. so really, If I remove the tren from my cycles maybe the peps will be more effective. I suppose the issue underlying all of my thyroid issues is the tren. Kick that and the ole thyroid will be working as it should. Sad day....lol so burly, if your thyroid ever goes, there you have it lol

They will be on adequate dose of thyroid medications, so if they are tuned the gear will be working allright, in your particular case- tunning your thyroid would make things easier- problem is tunning thyroid is difficults, it takes months as supplementing throid hormones it has delayed action, meaning when you change dosage it will take a month to feel difference.
And needs to be said that every cell in body needs thyroid hormones to work properly and to swith gear into higher speed, so insufficient levels of thyroid hormones is not good, too much is not good either as it kind of binds hormones so also you get less effect or better said you need lot more hormones to do action.

back to peptides and HGH- they both need plenty of T4, and it seems that HGH (and peps indirectly) have depressing effect on thyroid- so you end up in hypothyroid state, sometimes very fast- so what happens is you are trying to milk cow that has been allready milked, so to speak.
I think that main reason for pain in hands when using HGH/peps is because insufficient thyroid hormone levels.

Guys, thanks for kind words!

[burlyman30]

Burly, you would not benefit much from peps/HGH at the moment. If you remeber-
Adrenals
Thyroid
Sex hormones
GH (optional)

I'd like to touch on this for a moment. I do remember your hormonal importance hierarchy. If memory serves me correctly, my adrenals and thyroid may have been a bit on the low side, but were still within acceptable range. Unfortunately, I do not know what an optimal range for me would be and therefore do not know how to accurately gauge my results.

That being said, I have new bloodwork done at the end of this month by my endo, so maybe that will shed some light on my most current state.

So to go further with your above statement, I am assuming you meant that the hierarchal hormones you listed should be at optimal levels, not just in range and until they are, GH/peps are putting the proverbial cart before the horse. I do not think my endo will be taking my treatment further than TRT unless I press the issue, but I do not have sufficient knowledge of the ACTH/Thyroid systems in order to talk intelligently in this area. I will need either a crash course from you and Google, or I will have to go it alone (treating it) with (hopefully) your assistance.

This post veered a bit off topic. Sorry for hijacking my own thread. Lol.

[milehighguy]

Bro' OD, your E2 may be low- but its possible that your SHBG is low as well in which case your free estrogen could be high, and progesterone also contributes to gyno a lot- at right amount progesterone keeps both DHT and E2 in check but if its too low it makes things worse. Tren does not help, that's for sure.

ah yea...good stuff
keep it coming & welcome back!

[Jelisej]

Od- I'm not an expert on tren, but part of its benefits are done via thyroid and T3- I'm not sure on actual mechanism of action but I guess that combining tren with HGH and adding too many thyroid hormones could be dangerous game.

[Jelisej]

This post veered a bit off topic. Sorry for hijacking my own thread. Lol.

I've alredy hijacked your thread, and you have admit that no one is more versed in thread hijacking than me.

As for hormone hijerarchy- thing is adrenals, especialy cortisol are very important as they are involved in lot of processes and for example cortisol is needed to transport thyroid hormones inot cells- if there cortisol is too low you get what lot of people call "blood pooling" meaning that thyroid levels are there but they cannot enter cells and do their job so they are just there in blood- and also sometimes if you add thyroid hormones and if your cortisol is too low you get "crash" for example one of symptoms of insufficent cortisol (compared to thyroid) is iregular heart beat- more insufficent one is symptoms get worse. Also sometimes when body cannot cope with T3 it converts it into "reverse T3" which basically occupies place of T3 but does nothing.

For thyroid hormones- well they are needed in every cell, and for example lot of symptoms of "ageing" actually come from insufficient thyroid hormones- it even happens that people get misdiagnosed with parkinson (poor memory, dementia, concetration etc) when they actually have lower thyroid from what should be. Interestingly- sometimes even our hearing gets worse because of thyroid hormones.
And T3 itself is mosr powerful PDE5 inhibitor known to humankind- only for its action E2 and adrenals of course need to be tuned, and if DHT levels are decent- you'll have some serious erections.

As for optimum hormone levels that depends from person to person, some people have naturaly tuned bodies- and they can operate with less hormones and less tuned hormone levels, for others whenever things go bit off they feel it.
Generaly its always better to be upper- but I would say that balance is more important.

[burlyman30]

JJ...

I went back and looked at my ACTH and Thyroid tests. These are tests that I am assuming have improved in number since the addition of TRT based on how I seem to be feeling and based on what you said about the TRT kickstarting or forcing them to kick into gear or if they didn't, I wouldn't feel well. ACTH was 11 on a range of 6-50 and Thyroid was .82 on a range of .4 to 4.5. I believe I will get the ACTH retested as part of the normal panel, though thyroid did not come as part of the normal panel last time and I had to review that from an older test, from several months prior.

Based on this information, assuming we have improvements on those two areas, and also the sex hormone with the TRT, do you feel it is unwise to consider stimulating the pituitary? Or do you think it would be just less effective than it should be? I am not in any kind of hurry about this and I am certainly wanting to see what the upcoming bloods can tell us.

[Jelisej]

To be honest, I dont have a faint idea what kind of response you would get from stimulating pituary- maybe nothing at all. Your endo said that you were secondary and your pituary does not send signal- it means that your organs/glands are probably capable of producing stuff but they are not told to work (by pituary). Now, its even possible that stimulating your pituary could kickstart it at least to some extent, and wheter that would be enough or permanent- again I cannot say.
In any case if it does not pick up, you'll have to add more synthetic hormones. But before that you could try other stuff, even some natural supplements.
As for your TSH and ACTH they are just part of picture, it does seems that your pituary is not working at its full, but on other hand those levels were probably balanced with other low levels, what happened afterwoods I cannot tell, probably they picked up somewhat.

Back to original topic- I'm not sure wheter GHRP/GHRH's would be capable of producing any significant result as they do not have enough material to do its work.

[burlyman30]

I believe that my hypogonadism was caused by chronic high levels of stress over a period of several years. I think the increased cortisol levels blunted the testosterone levels. Not sure if cortisol can blunt pituitary as well. And if so, would it come back on line once cortisol levels were back in check? This I do not know.

All that stress/cortisol combined with what used to be a massive daily intake of caffeine, also ran my adrenals into the ground. This is my theory, anyway. Cortisol levels are in check now, I believe. I encounter stress, but usually am able to handle it better. The TRT has mellowed out my reactions to stress in most instances.

Just wanted to add more pieces to the puzzle as it may relate to my pituitary.

[olddawg]

I have a bit of info that I think here would be a good spot to add it. I know a guy on another board who claims that he's tested the peps and that the GH release happens regardless of whether or not you have eaten. If this is true, then the insulin level in your body has only to do with the fat burning effect of the peps. so eating won't stop the gh release but will stop the fat burning effects of the peps. maybe someone else has some knowledge on this???