Size or Strength?

[Cdsnuts]

What do you train for?

You would assume that with a name like Swole Source, the answer would be obvious for most guys here. But that's not always the case. I've been lifting for 13 yrs with some small breaks here and there, but for the most part, I've always stayed in shape. My longest layoff was actually this past winter. I was out of the gym for a good 4 months. I'm paying for that indiscretion now as I hobble around trying to recover from the abuse I dole out to myself in the name of fitness.

If there's one thing I've learned as I've gotten older, it's that the older I get, the less I know. I've always managed to keep myself in pretty damn good shape without really knowing what the hell I was doing. Sure, I can tell you what all the machines do and how to work them and what exercises to do for what body parts, but as far as WHY.....don't have a clue. The science behind it? Couldn't tell you. I would just show up, lift hard, eat, sleep and repeat. I would get big.

This time around though, it feels different. I feel like I want to define my goals in the gym and act accordingly. Why am I lifting? Of course the obvious reasons are for looks. Let's face it, when you look good, you feel good. Who doesn't want to feel good? Secondary would be the fact that I don't want to be one of these older folks that falls down and then can't get back up. Granted I'm only 36, but still..... Use it or lose it.

I guess my long winded question would be this. Is there any merit to the different lifting schemes out there, or if you just show up and lift, are you going to get results regardless? Things like, if you want to get big, keep your reps and weight between this and that. Of for endurance, lift lighter weight with higher reps. Strength they say keep the reps low and weight high. Etc, etc, etc.

Isn't the very fact of using your muscles to lift heavy shit going to have an effect on the muscle regardless, or is there wisdom in these differing schools of thought? You might think this doesn't sound like someone who has been working out for all those years. Honestly, I've never given it a second thought until now. Go figure.....

[xxiv]

Isn't the very fact of using your muscles to lift heavy shit going to have an effect on the muscle regardless, or is there wisdom in these differing schools of thought? You might think this doesn't sound like someone who has been working out for all those years. Honestly, I've never given it a second thought until now. Go figure.....

you will gain size and strength to a degree with any decent routine and diet. when you focus on a specific goal and dedicate your life to it you have the potential to excell.

[O_RYAN_007]

you will gain size and strength to a degree with any decent routine and diet. when you focus on a specific goal and dedicate your life to it you have the potential to excell.

I agree with this. I lifted for 5 years solid training as a body builder, but I never got much satisfaction out of it... It wasn't till a couple years back that I started dabbling with powerlifting that I got extremely excited. My goal since then have been strength first and foremost; everything else is just a by product of that. I have a set goal, and that goal is to get as strong as possible and get into PL competition.

[Cdsnuts]

you will gain size and strength to a degree with any decent routine and diet. when you focus on a specific goal and dedicate your life to it you have the potential to excell.

This is what I've experienced. I'm just wondering how much difference these various programs actually make.

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I agree with this. I lifted for 5 years solid training as a body builder, but I never got much satisfaction out of it... It wasn't till a couple years back that I started dabbling with powerlifting that I got extremely excited. My goal since then have been strength first and foremost; everything else is just a by product of that. I have a set goal, and that goal is to get as strong as possible and get into PL competition.

So focusing on strength rather then size, do you follow the typical low rep high weight scheme?

[burlyman30]

This is what I've experienced. I'm just wondering how much difference these various programs actually make.

Strength-based programs make a drastic difference in reaching strength goals, for sure. 5-3-1, periodization programs, etc. all do a great job of taking the body to higher strength levels than would be possible from a standard BBing workout.

As far as strictly size based goals, people tend to grow differently from different stimuli. My legs may get strong from sets of 6 in squats, but they get big from sets of 20. It takes experimenting at those different rep ranges to really know how your body will react to the greatest degree. DJM likes sets of 12-15 or more on a lot of his bodyparts. Some guys stick to 8-12. I like to hit the different muscle fibers equally, so I will go and do heavy sets of 5-6 and then lighten things up and do sets of 15, 20, even 30+ reps.

[pman42]

I have always found that a compound approach works for me. train for size but also for strength. the goal being to beat the log book on a consistent basis, since lifting the same weight with the same reps will not result in the same degree of muscle damage, and hence hypertrophy, over time. after all, why be big if you're not strong? and why be strong if you're not big?

lately i have been reading so many different sources and programs i am just overwhelmed with info. it seems everyone has a miraculous program to put on 15 lbs in 8 weeks, but when i look at them, i realize that what I am doing is better. i haven't really read a program or source so "authoritative" that i break out the new logbook i have dedicated to my "next" program. it was going to be 5/3/1 but with my back now i can't squat or deadlift so i will shelve that plan for a while.

i am wondering the ever-present question as well, how do i keep getting bigger? what is the best way? just pick the exercises that work for my body and bomb and blast them, heavy and hard, week after week? or find a program and stick with it? the thing i don't like about programs is there's always a week or 2 of settling in and it feels like wasted time when i can already go into the gym and pretty well destroy any muscle group.

thoughts?

[weekend]

I have always found that a compound approach works for me. train for size but also for strength. the goal being to beat the log book on a consistent basis, since lifting the same weight with the same reps will not result in the same degree of muscle damage, and hence hypertrophy, over time. after all, why be big if you're not strong? and why be strong if you're not big?

lately i have been reading so many different sources and programs i am just overwhelmed with info. it seems everyone has a miraculous program to put on 15 lbs in 8 weeks, but when i look at them, i realize that what I am doing is better. i haven't really read a program or source so "authoritative" that i break out the new logbook i have dedicated to my "next" program. it was going to be 5/3/1 but with my back now i can't squat or deadlift so i will shelve that plan for a while.

i am wondering the ever-present question as well, how do i keep getting bigger? what is the best way? just pick the exercises that work for my body and bomb and blast them, heavy and hard, week after week? or find a program and stick with it? the thing i don't like about programs is there's always a week or 2 of settling in and it feels like wasted time when i can already go into the gym and pretty well destroy any muscle group.

thoughts?

i agree with this. i train for size and shape but every time i get in the gym i look to set a new PR if i feel up to it. strength is more satisfying, and easier to quantify than aesthetics, but i want to get aesthetic... so i go for both. once i can master a heavy weight, i can drop down a bit to a weight that used to be a hard 3 and start hitting it for sets of 10.. thats when new size comes for me.

so i guess my method is work up to a new weight PR, then drop back down and master the level right below, and then go back up again, rinse and repeat.

[burlyman30]

i agree with this. i train for size and shape but every time i get in the gym i look to set a new PR if i feel up to it. strength is more satisfying, and easier to quantify than aesthetics, but i want to get aesthetic... so i go for both. once i can master a heavy weight, i can drop down a bit to a weight that used to be a hard 3 and start hitting it for sets of 10.. thats when new size comes for me.

so i guess my method is work up to a new weight PR, then drop back down and master the level right below, and then go back up again, rinse and repeat.

Good point, Weekend.

Just to add to this, if I were to find that sets of 10 reps created the best muscle growth for a certain bodypart, then this is the range I would want to spend most of my time in. However, sets of 10 are in a high enough rep range where it is usually very difficult to build strength. So, if you can do as Weekend stated and get stronger in another (lower) rep range so that you can use more weight in that 10-rep range, then you will be able to maximize your growth.

[Cdsnuts]

Great info here from all you guys. Looking back, I guess I never really lifted for size. It was always strength. I too was always trying to beat my weight from the workout before. Every work out.... I also never went above 8-9 reps unless it was a light warm up set, which I'd go for 12 or more. But that was only usually one set of a particular exercise. My reps would also go down as my weight went up. So by default it was always strength training. Thing is, for me, even though I was training that way, I'd still put on size. I wonder if I dropped the weight a bit and went for more reps, If I'd grow even bigger? Based on others results, it's probably a safe assumption.

Thing is, I'm not a body builder per se. I like the aesthetics but love the strength. I'm more then fine with the size I get from the training I do. I guess I've finally just put into words what the hell I train for.......finally.

[O_RYAN_007]

This is what I've experienced. I'm just wondering how much difference these various programs actually make.

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So focusing on strength rather then size, do you follow the typical low rep high weight scheme?

I follow the conjugate method for the most part. I still do higher reps on my accessory lifts. I work on Speed (Dynamic effort) and Maximal effort work throughout the week.