Eric Potratz.... new company, new product!

[silverstrand]

I do not have carotechs permission to post emails on here, but you as a consumer of their products are more than welcome to call and ask what products are you consuming when you buy palm fruit from botanical craft.

Here is their US phone number: +1 (732) 906 1901

I've tried both the Eric's current Palm Extract and his Toco 8. I've liked both; and imagine I received benefits from them but honestly, I couldn't tell the difference between the two, besides taste and color. I believe his current Palm Extract tastes best; my only issue with it is the low solubility with water or juice. I feel like a good portion is wasted due to clumps sticking to the side of the glass. I would be happy with an organic addition to the extract that would allow for better solubility. If your product disolves better in water, this could potentially be another selling point I'd be interested in.

That said, Eric apprears to hold high favor with many on this forum as he should. He has done a lot of work and research to help those on this site. He's also in a tough spot with the legal procedings brought to court by the FDA which I believe are fraudulent on the FDA's part. I'm willing to use both products, his and yours. I believe you'll find more support by emphasizing the benefits of your porduct and the possibility of being superior to Eric's (but not as an absolute). If I were you, I'd encourage use of both products and let the customers decide on preference.

[O.N.]

I've tried both the Eric's current Palm Extract and his Toco 8. I've liked both; and imagine I received benefits from them but honestly, I couldn't tell the difference between the two, besides taste and color. I believe his current Palm Extract tastes best; my only issue with it is the low solubility with water or juice. I feel like a good portion is wasted due to clumps sticking to the side of the glass. I would be happy with an organic addition to the extract that would allow for better solubility. If your product disolves better in water, this could potentially be another selling point I'd be interested in.

That said, Eric apprears to hold high favor with many on this forum as he should. He has done a lot of work and research to help those on this site. He's also in a tough spot with the legal procedings brought to court by the FDA which I believe are fraudulent on the FDA's part. I'm willing to use both products, his and yours. I believe you'll find more support by emphasizing the benefits of your porduct and the possibility of being superior to Eric's (but not as an absolute). If I were you, I'd encourage use of both products and let the customers decide on preference.

Our product is in a capsule, swallow it down zero waste easy to consume.

I'll lay our your raw Tocotrienols/Tocopherols cost here for you per 1000mg
botanical craft 4312mg per container $49.99 cost per 1000mg = $11.59
TocoCaps 7120mg per container $49.95 AUD cost per 1000mg = $7.01 (actual mg per container)

$7.01 AUD currently = $5.65 USD

[booklifter]

I've tried both the Eric's current Palm Extract and his Toco 8. I've liked both; and imagine I received benefits from them but honestly, I couldn't tell the difference between the two, besides taste and color. I believe his current Palm Extract tastes best; my only issue with it is the low solubility with water or juice. I feel like a good portion is wasted due to clumps sticking to the side of the glass. I would be happy with an organic addition to the extract that would allow for better solubility. If your product disolves better in water, this could potentially be another selling point I'd be interested in.

Have you tried it with just the tiniest amount of sunflower lecithin mixed in (or soy if you don't mind it)? I'd use the dry granules to make it easier to meter out and dissolve such a small amount but whatever form, it'll work or not work the same. He's already got some emulsifiers premixed in there but probably wanted to keep the dilution/filling and nutritional impact to a minimum (giving consumers the freedom to try stuff like this, or not).

[Eric Potratz]

Hossam Eric claimed things which were not true, eg he claimed carotech are producing his formula specifically just for him through a contractual agreement.....they are not...they are selling him 2 products and he is combining them. 1 product is the main ingredient (tocomax 20%) the other is carosol 3% it is used in a very small amount it is very cheap.

We confirmed this with Carotech after all this started over the last week or so.

So yes he did lie about several things.

End of the day whatever well and truly over it now.

Kirk,

Nothing was a lie. You simply misinterpreted what I said. The extract in Palm Fruit is exclusive to Botanical Craft so long as someone doesn’t reverse engineer and copy our formula, and we do have a confidentiality agreement with Carotech to support our exclusive formula.

[Eric Potratz]

I've tried both the Eric's current Palm Extract and his Toco 8. I've liked both; and imagine I received benefits from them but honestly, I couldn't tell the difference between the two, besides taste and color. I believe his current Palm Extract tastes best; my only issue with it is the low solubility with water or juice. I feel like a good portion is wasted due to clumps sticking to the side of the glass. I would be happy with an organic addition to the extract that would allow for better solubility. If your product disolves better in water, this could potentially be another selling point I'd be interested in.

That said, Eric apprears to hold high favor with many on this forum as he should. He has done a lot of work and research to help those on this site. He's also in a tough spot with the legal procedings brought to court by the FDA which I believe are fraudulent on the FDA's part. I'm willing to use both products, his and yours. I believe you'll find more support by emphasizing the benefits of your porduct and the possibility of being superior to Eric's (but not as an absolute). If I were you, I'd encourage use of both products and let the customers decide on preference.

Hey silverstrand,

The Palm Fruit doesn't mix very well in cold liquid. Try mixing it with something hot/warm like coffee or tea. It also mixes well with yogurt, oatmeal, and smoothies.

[O.N.]

Kirk,

Nothing was a lie. You simply misinterpreted what I said. The extract in Palm Fruit is exclusive to Botanical Craft so long as someone doesn’t reverse engineer and copy our formula, and we do have a confidentiality agreement with Carotech to support our exclusive formula.

I love your back pedaling now that a contact phone number for carotech has been given out and that all American consumers have the right to know what they are consuming if you are claiming an "exclusive formula" and someone else is saying nope it's just tocomax 20% and carosol 3%......I am not claiming it's is these 2 carotech products based on my own assumptions I am claiming it is these 2 products based on what Carotech have told me!

Yes, our raw material is from Carotech and the Palm Fruit extract is exclusive to Botanical Craft as per our agreement with Carotech.

Q1: So are you saying that your raw material is not tocomax 20% and that it is actually a unique extract which is exclusive to botanical craft as per an agreement you have with Carotech?

Again, the extract in Palm Fruit is not the same as Toco-8 or Tococaps, and it is the carotenoid content that primarily makes the difference. If you ever actually assay your product from a 3rd party lab, you will see that your product does not have 9,700 IU of vitamin A from carotenoids. Toco-8 and Tococaps used a tocotrienol extract with a trace residual amount of naturally occuring carotenoids. Our product is a full-spectrum extract of tocols and carotenoids which includes 10 mg/serving of naturally occurring palm-based carotenoids. This is about 50x more carotenoids than than both Toco-8 and your Tococaps.
It is really simple. We are using a different palm extract, thus explaining why our product contains 10 mg of naturally occurring palm-based carotenoids, and yours only contains 0.2 mg.

Q2: Are you saying that you are using a different palm extract to tocomax 20% which contains a higher concentration of carotenoids than tocomax 20% which was previously used in toco8 and also used in our product tococaps?

Our raw material is not Tocomax 20% per se’, but our product does contain all the same tocols as Tocomax giving us the rights to make claims regarding improved bioavailability, hair growth, cardiovascular health, etc., which have been established for Tocomax type material. Our product also contains carotenoids that exceed that of Tocomax. With that said, our agreement with Carotech is confidential to protect the IP behind our product, so I'm not able to give details that would compromise this. All I can say is that the tocols and carotenoids are coming from palm fruit (elaeis guineensis), and Carotech supplies this material.

---------------------------------------------------------
Based on all questions and answers you have given you have represented yourself that carotech is making an exclusive formulation just for you, you have even gone as far as saying "Our raw material is not Tocomax 20%" and "We are using a different palm extract"


Carotech have confirmed you do not have an exclusive formula they are making for you, you do not have a confidentiality agreement to buy 2 different products from them without anyone else asking for that information (as consumers we have the right to know what we are consuming).
They do not know your formula as they are not making it, all they know is they supply you with 2 products tocomax 20% and carosol 3%.
Everything you have said here represented yourself as carotech having made this "one" formulation just for you.

[weekend]

i have never noticed anything for certain from a toco product. i take them because i believe in the write ups, which you basically verbatim copied from eric on your whole site ON.

i'm only paying 24.99 per tub of palm fruit, so its the same price as yours. it tastes really good, unlike the contents of toco caps which is identical to toco8

you never invented anything novel like he did, only cloned his products and created epic gains (epically expensive)

i'd rather support eric just because he's not trying to attack you like you are him. palm fruit is clearly a different product, and wording on here is not worth reading into.. they are pretty much the same price.

maybe spend your effort making something HE doesn't know how to make. or work on making epic gainz way cheaper or something. fuck i dont know. this is a waste of your time.

[O.N.]

Wouldn't it sound great if a supplement company came out and either claimed or portrayed that "Glaxosmithkline are formulating our product for us exclusively, it's completely different to similar products and it doesn't use the same products they are using"

It's unbelievable to make such a claim/portray a claim....the same being said to come out and say Carotech is making our palm fruit formula for us exclusively, we have a contractual agreement with them....we are not using tocomax 20%.

We then call carotech hey whats the deal are you making something exclusively just for botanical craft....cause thats what he is telling everyone
They then say no he's using the same material as you with the additional of carosol 3%.....we don't know his formula but thats the 2 products he is buying from us.

How much is carosol 3%?...ok cool
How much is needed for 9700IU of vitamin A?....ok cool

Sounds very inexpensive thanks.

It always sounds good to portray yourself as bigger than what you are or having the help of a big company involved in your production of a formula like carotech. But a play on words or a twist of the truth isn't a good thing.

Tell me from what Eric has written at no point did you feel that he was saying carotech is making his specific extract just for him and that he doesn't use the same product as us tocomax 20%?

[Cdsnuts]

i have never noticed anything for certain from a toco product. i take them because i believe in the write ups, which you basically verbatim copied from eric on your whole site ON.

i'm only paying 24.99 per tub of palm fruit, so its the same price as yours. it tastes really good, unlike the contents of toco caps which is identical to toco8

you never invented anything novel like he did, only cloned his products and created epic gains (epically expensive)

i'd rather support eric just because he's not trying to attack you like you are him. palm fruit is clearly a different product, and wording on here is not worth reading into.. they are pretty much the same price.

maybe spend your effort making something HE doesn't know how to make. or work on making epic gainz way cheaper or something. fuck i dont know. this is a waste of your time.

The look and feel of the whole site is a copy of PP's site. The way they list the products....the way they do the write ups. Everything.

[silverstrand]

Hey silverstrand,

The Palm Fruit doesn't mix very well in cold liquid. Try mixing it with something hot/warm like coffee or tea. It also mixes well with yogurt, oatmeal, and smoothies.

I have not tried it in anything other than a cold liquid. I'll give it a shot and see how it goes. Thanks.