Effects of tren on the heart vs. other steroids?

[Right Hook]

I had a medical doc buddy send me an article on some current research showing there is mo difference on athletic loading to the heart regardless of the exercise. I will post it up in a different thread.

The level of multiple steroids, HGH, prescription drugs, illicit drugs, and other compounds on the biomechanical machine we call our bodies is unclear and highly individual. As others have stated, genetics are a huge part.

Comparisons could be drawn to life long illicit drug users or smokers/alcoholics who live into there 90's. Overall longevity is still a mystery.

Sparky

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There is overwhelming research that says the opposite. Would love to see this paper.

[Sperwer]

Anabolic steroids and the heart - Are the risks overblown?

"There is no evidence that LV ejection fraction in elite athletes is altered by either type of training or AAS misuse"

That's not what I say, but what a recent study from the University of Belgrade says. The scientists had compared a total of 20 elite strength athletes (10 AAS users and 10 non-users) to 12 steroid-free endurance athletes and found:

"No significant differences in ejection fraction and cardiac output were observed among the groups, although mildly reduced LV ejection fraction was seen only in the AAS users."

What the scientists did yet observe was a significant beneficial effects of endurance training on LV diastolic function - at least compared to strength training (with and without AAS).www.suppversity.com

Reference: Ilic et al. The impact of anabolic androgenic steroids abuse and type of training on left ventricular remodeling and function in competitive athletes. Vojnosanitetski Pregled. 2013. UDC: 61:79]::616.12.

[burlyman30]

Wow.. I learned something new about LV remodeling not being specific to mode of exercise and find the small difference that AAS usage affects the heart (in these tests) to be quite surprising. However, I am glad to read this.

[O.N.]

Be sure to read post #5 and #6 this was a list i started a long time ago and never got to finish:
Middle Aged Dead Bodybuilders

I think from memory from the last time i updated the list it contained 108 different steroid using subjects, eg bodybuilders, wrestlers, powerlifters, strongman etc all died of heart related conditions and the average age was 38.

Also to note i think i removed normal causes of death from the list that could be ruled out as not associated to steroid use.

This list has had a lot of attention and skepticism from those who defend steroid use however it remains to be said that many many of these people were "healthy looking" from the outside eg visible abs etc ate correctly to achieve the body image they showed yet all had heart problems at very young ages.

The point being i dont think we can gather a list of 108 subjects from say "soccer" or "tennis" that all died of heart problems with the average age being only 38.....

[Right Hook]

Anabolic steroids and the heart - Are the risks overblown?

"There is no evidence that LV ejection fraction in elite athletes is altered by either type of training or AAS misuse"

That's not what I say, but what a recent study from the University of Belgrade says. The scientists had compared a total of 20 elite strength athletes (10 AAS users and 10 non-users) to 12 steroid-free endurance athletes and found:

"No significant differences in ejection fraction and cardiac output were observed among the groups, although mildly reduced LV ejection fraction was seen only in the AAS users."

What the scientists did yet observe was a significant beneficial effects of endurance training on LV diastolic function - at least compared to strength training (with and without AAS).www.suppversity.com

Reference: Ilic et al. The impact of anabolic androgenic steroids abuse and type of training on left ventricular remodeling and function in competitive athletes. Vojnosanitetski Pregled. 2013. UDC: 61:79]::616.12.

Do you have a link to the full article on suppversity? I cannot find it.

[burlyman30]

Be sure to read post #5 and #6 this was a list i started a long time ago and never got to finish:
Middle Aged Dead Bodybuilders

I think from memory from the last time i updated the list it contained 108 different steroid using subjects, eg bodybuilders, wrestlers, powerlifters, strongman etc all died of heart related conditions and the average age was 38.

Also to note i think i removed normal causes of death from the list that could be ruled out as not associated to steroid use.

This list has had a lot of attention and skepticism from those who defend steroid use however it remains to be said that many many of these people were "healthy looking" from the outside eg visible abs etc ate correctly to achieve the body image they showed yet all had heart problems at very young ages.

The point being i dont think we can gather a list of 108 subjects from say "soccer" or "tennis" that all died of heart problems with the average age being only 38.....

While I cannot dispute the heart related deaths in steroid users, I do have to wonder what other factors come in to play here. Dosage levels, diet, and genetic heart issues are ones that come to mind.

And while I can't argue for steroids when it comes to heart health, I could probably make a list of highschool kids who have died on the basketball court or the running track or football field that would likely outnumber your list.

[Sperwer]

Do you have a link to the full article on suppversity? I cannot find it.

He didn't write a full article, just the short statement i quoted, which he posted on facebook. His facebook posts are collected on the main web page in a section halfway done in the righthand sidebar


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[O.N.]

While I cannot dispute the heart related deaths in steroid users, I do have to wonder what other factors come in to play here. Dosage levels, diet, and genetic heart issues are ones that come to mind.

And while I can't argue for steroids when it comes to heart health, I could probably make a list of highschool kids who have died on the basketball court or the running track or football field that would likely outnumber your list.

Yes we do not know what other drugs if any were used at the time or what dose of steroids were used but the main point is the large scale and the average age. As I said previously, I dont think we can gather a list of 108 subjects from say "soccer" or "tennis" that all died of heart problems with the average age being only 38.....

Remember the list i ruled out other causes and removed those from the list such as car accident, cancer etc.

The last part i will say about this list is we all are very aware that steroids drastically effect cholesterol, LDL and HDL levels. Which has been known for a long time to play a role in heart disease.

I'll end that there for no further comment from me, you may defend steroid use all you like and yes there is no study which proves these people died from steroids but the autopsies do indicate heart disease in what appears to be very very healthy people who eat correctly and exercise most of their lives with a common denominator that they all do the right things health wise other than take steroids.

Do steroids give you heart disease? No but they do really mess up your cholesterol values......we all know what that leads to

[burlyman30]

I'm not sure how you took my statement as "defending steroid use", because clearly I did not argue that heart issues can arise. I just find your compiled list as underwhelming when I look at other statistics. For instance, the American Academy of Pediatrics estimated that 2,000 people under the age of 25 die from sudden cardiac arrest every year.

So then the question has to be asked, "what are the factors involved in the deaths of these young people?" Diet? Drugs? Exercise?

According to the American Heart Association, "sudden cardiac arrest in a young person stems from a structural defect in the heart or a problem with its electrical circuitry and hypertrophic cardiomyopathy accounts for 40% of all cases."

Among cases in youth, it appears that it occurs about 3x more frequently in competitive athletes than those who are sedentary.

Getting back to the original point... if you don't want to risk heart damage from steroids... don't take steroids! How serious is the risk? I believe there are too many factors to be able to say with any accuracy. So, educate yourself prior to using AAS/PH compounds and don't take their usage lightly. Your life is in your very own hands, so make the most educated decisions you can about your continued longevity.

[O.N.]

I
Among cases in youth, it appears that it occurs about 3x more frequently in competitive athletes than those who are sedentary.

That's an alarming fact. Sorry if you took my statement as "you" defending steroid use I was speaking in general terms to all. I have had many heated debates about this subject since i hold a passion for not using steroids after my own personal loss of a friend and my own health issues from over 10yrs of misuse of steroids.