Trenbolone: the good, the bad, and the ugly.

[Infamy]

Basically it's looked like this so far (I'm in week 6) and I planned for it to look like what follows week 6

Mast 525 mg/week 1-15
Var 30 mg week 1-2 and 20 mg 3-4
Test 350 mg week 1-8 and drop from there until increasing again at week 11 and then dropping entirely at week 13
Tren 150 mg week 5, 300 mg week 6, 350 mg week 7-11

Super janky set up cause I changed my mind part way thru the cycle lol

All short esters.

It depends on your goals. You might have guessed that mine are to reduce bf - even at the expense of muscle. In fact I wage a daily battle with bf!!

If you want to end the cycle looking more cut then I would suggest leaving the test dropped at week 8 or at least reduce it from week 8 to maybe 50mg a week until week 10 where you drop it altogether.

Forget the var and instead run Winstrol weeks 10-11 at 50mg a day with your tren and mast. or if you really must run var use 20mg of var alongside the Winstrol. Running 2 orals at that level for only 2 weeks at those dosages won't collapse your liver but make sure you give it a break post cycle.

It's definitely worth using the masteron as you outline past the tren so that's a good idea.

Beware tren is very very suppressive so I don't know how long you usually give it before starting pct but with that dose of tren I would wait 6 weeks after the last tren shot before starting pct. Even if you have a mere 25 mg in your system you will be completely shutdown so bear that in mind. People often start pct way too early after tren and end up doing it whilst too much tren is in their system. The result is a botched pct and no recovery !

As you are using the mast for most of those 6 weeks you can probably do pct 2-3 weeks after the last masteron shot (I presume it's drostanolone prop not drostanolone e)

[Infamy]

I believe I have hit nerves in my quads about 1 in 20 shots and it's not a big deal at all. A hard set of any weight lifting is much worse.

If you push the needle in real slow you can tell when you are going to hit a nerve before sticking the pin straight through it. The slow inserting of the needle means you don't have to worry about the nasty effect of hitting a nerve.

[weekend]

Wait, why would I start pct 3 weeks after my last masteron shot?? I was thinking of starting a few days before my last shot.

Using tren ace as well, why would I need to wait 6 full weeks?

I've noticed that effect with the nerves before, maybe I haven't hit a big one because when I have hit them it didn't bother me much.

Also definitely not set on running anavar lol. I probably would wanna keep test at at least 100 though.

[Infamy]

Wait, why would I start pct 3 weeks after my last masteron shot?? I was thinking of starting a few days before my last shot.

Using tren ace as well, why would I need to wait 6 full weeks?

I've noticed that effect with the nerves before, maybe I haven't hit a big one because when I have hit them it didn't bother me much.

Also definitely not set on running anavar lol. I probably would wanna keep test at at least 100 though.

Sorry I thought you were using tren e. Scrub that comment about 6 weeks then it'll be out of your system by the time you finish the mast.

As for the 3 week wait, do the maths. 525mg is suppressive so starting pct straight away is pointless as no recovery will happen.

Drostanolone prop has a half life of about 5 days so 5 days after your last masteron shot you will have about 250mg of mast in your system - which is still suppressive. 10 days after your last shot you'll have 125mg in your system which is still suppressive.

15 days after your last shot you'll have 60 or so mg of mast in your system which is mildly suppressive but still have some suppression. So at least 15 days is needed before you pct can have a hope of getting you any recovery any earlier taken that and you are wasting your time and money.

I've said 3 week as that should be about right for the mast to have lowered to a sensible level to start pct.

[PolimarT]

Good thread Burly. Personally tren is my favourite and if you can run it properly then you probably won't want to do a cycle without it.

Some things I've noticed through trial and error of years of tren use which may be useful:

1. Without some test, you will look lean and ripped (diet and cardio affect to how ripped you get) but you probably will think your muscles look flat. I use no more than 250mg test cyp or test e every 2 weeks. Tren and test don't mix well together as you will see from my later comments. It's no surprise to me that those guys that use 250mg a week or more of test seem to have the worst sides. But a small amount of test will have a great synergistic effect. When I want to really rip up I stop the test.

2. Estrogen. This is a big problem on tren. Whilst there seems to be no mechanism for tren to convert to estrogen nevertheless studies have shown tren solo raises estrogen level in cattle. Use too much test as well with your tren and you will regret it. Personally I think many of trens negative sides are related to high estrogen eg night sweats, irritability, gyno etc. I've found that using very low test plus at least 1mg anastrazole a day plus 120mg plus of raloxifene a day help combat these issues. The ralox is for the gyno (see point 3). Use 500mg of test with your tren and you'll probably find it doesn't matter what you do you will get the side effect and you can't stop them so I can't emphasise enough to keep test low. After all if you are injecting the most powerful steroid widely available then why create competition for your androgen receptors with a weaker steroid like test?

3. Gyno. If you use tren be prepared for gyno. Unless you are very very lucky, this will happen. Expect it and prepare for it. This is why you need the ai and raloxifene from day 1 mentioned in 2 above. Have letro on hand because you may need it. Don't start you tren cycle without these ancillaries. Even taking these precautions it doesn't stop tren from happening sometimes. Interestingly I have recently found that Winstrol really helps combat gyno on tren. Unfortunately if you are doing a long tren run then you can't use Winstrol all cycle.

4. Tren definitely increases some muscle groups at the expense of others regardless of your training. In particular it increase back and lat size at the expense of pecs. There is a reason why most pros have huge backs and tren is that reason. I don't know of another steroid that does anything like that.

5. You don't need much tren. I have had some real nice results from just 50mg of tren e a week. You don't need to go straight in at 400+ mg a week for your first tren cycle so if you want to dip your toe just try 50-100mg a week. You will be surprised with how nice the results are for such a low dose. I shot the 50mg once a week and it still worked well so the 5 days between injects is bs in my opinion.

6. Liver. I ALWAYS get raised liver enzymes from tren. I'm not the only one either so don't be stupid and use high tren dose for long periods without a break or you will end up yellow and in the Er. This is strangely something which isn't well reported so always keep a check on your bloods on tren. You can use all the udca or Tudca you want but it won't stop it stressing your liver in the long run.

7. Tren ace. For the more advanced user a good way to use tren is use say 200mg of tren e a week to give a tren long lasting base and the use say 50mg a day of tren ace. Beware for those that haven't done ed injections it gets real old real quickly and you have to be good at remembering where you injected 5 days ago in order to avoid hitting the same spot too often and getting scar tissue. The tren ace in this cycle gives an immediate kick and works great just before a workout. If you can't commit to ed injections though then forget tren ace as it should be shot ed.

8. Water. Tren is metabolised partly by the kidneys so you need to up your water intake dramatically to try to avoid kidney problem. stand at the tap and force yourself to down a few pints after getting up and regularly throughout the day. You'll notice that if you don't your urine becomes very very dark. Some of this discoloration is down to the tren being excreted but bear in mind that as your kidneys are removing more crap from your blood you need to keep your water levels up or kidney stones and kidney stress may occur as the urine has more crap in it per ml than it does when not on tren.

9. Winstrol and masteron. I've mentioned Winstrol before in relation to gyno but it also has a fantastic effect on your look. If you can't get ripped and a 6 pack on tren, Winstrol and masteron (my favourite stack) then give up because you never will.

10. Blood pressure. This, for me anyway, is completely dependant on diet and cardio. I used to use bp meds on tren but I found that by doing 25 mins of hiit a day plus keeping salt intake down, my blood pressure normalised itself and I now no longer need Bp meds on tren as I can keep below 120/80 without any trouble. If you have that bag of salty potato chips you will notice a bp spike in 10 minutes though!

This post is amazing! thanks for all this info, i never ever consider winstrol before but i will look into it, after reading this post I will definately use 50 mgs of tren ED even if I hate needles. now the fact that you advice that test as low as 125 or less to get shredded makes me wonder.... unfortuantely I could not cut my pharma grade test in half as I dont have sterile vials available and my test comes in single vials of 250 mgs each, but I will try to get them, I thought that test at 250 would provide leaning benefits that would be much more reinforced with tren.

my original plan looks like this:

test E 250 mgs week 1 to 16
tren A week 3 to 12 (probably till week 14)
mast week 10 to 17
11-oxo kicker/low recommended dose (week 1 to 6)

and possibly var from week 13 to 18 (while tst clearance)

now my question would be, do you recommend using tren (as i planed) in the beginning ? or should i swap the tren and mast using mast at the beginning and finish the cycle with tren? (If I swap them and I use var, i would also use var as a kicker and finish with 11-oxo)

*I decided to include 11-oxo as it is mild

I will also keep the var at no more than 30 mgs

[weekend]

This post is amazing! thanks for all this info, i never ever consider winstrol before but i will look into it, after reading this post I will definately use 50 mgs of tren ED even if I hate needles. now the fact that you advice that test as low as 125 or less to get shredded makes me wonder.... unfortuantely I could not cut my pharma grade test in half as I dont have sterile vials available and my test comes in single vials of 250 mgs each, but I will try to get them, I thought that test at 250 would provide leaning benefits that would be much more reinforced with tren.

my original plan looks like this:

test E 250 mgs week 1 to 16
tren A week 3 to 12 (probably till week 14)
mast week 10 to 17
11-oxo kicker/low recommended dose (week 1 to 6)

and possibly var from week 13 to 18 (while tst clearance)

now my question would be, do you recommend using tren (as i planed) in the beginning ? or should i swap the tren and mast using mast at the beginning and finish the cycle with tren? (If I swap them and I use var, i would also use var as a kicker and finish with 11-oxo)

*I decided to include 11-oxo as it is mild

I will also keep the var at no more than 30 mgs

well dosed var is amazing.. if you really get it free as you say i would run as much as possible! def better than 11-keto

and you will be better off running the tren first. good call overlapping the mast too, but if you have the funds i would consider run mast at a lower dose for the beginning as well, or just begin using it right away if you have any nip sensitivity.

[PolimarT]

well dosed var is amazing.. if you really get it free as you say i would run as much as possible! def better than 11-keto

and you will be better off running the tren first. good call overlapping the mast too, but if you have the funds i would consider run mast at a lower dose for the beginning as well, or just begin using it right away if you have any nip sensitivity.

Thanks for the feedback bro, my only concern would be the liver damage caused by anavar, 11 keto is not that bad for the liver.. I will try to get more extra vials of mast.

[weekend]

Meh if you ran it during the whole tren free part of your cycle I'm sure you'd be fine and so much more shredded. 11 keto I think is not needed here, tren ace is potent as fuck

[burlyman30]

11 keto is something to use between aas cycles as a "light" cycle. You will get no benefit from it in a tren cycle.

And start low with the tren, and slowly increase the dosage. I'd say 20-25 mg/day for the first week to see how it goes. 50/day would be max. I personally have never gone above 200/WK total and get excellent results, so a lot is not needed when it comes to tren. It is extremely potent per mg.

[PolimarT]

Thank you Burly and weekend, I wont use 11-oxo then, I will still include var tho. I will start with low dose tren too, I cant wait to start it. Do you guys think my plan is g2g now? I may also use mast longer