Gyno questions

[weekend]

in my opinion your gyno won't budge unless your androgens are higher. for someone like me with high test when off gear, i made substantial progress using ralox, aromasin and prami concurrently, but the improvement was like double with masteron added, so i assume you really NEED androgens to fix the problem.

thus, TRT is the best option. imo.

i also realized gyno is way less bothersome on cycle, androgens seem to make me give less fucks about what people think or see on me. sure it looks way better but now i barely even think of it. during PCT when my test was probably as low as yours (:/) that shit made me want to cry...

[burlyman30]

If I can interject something about the "TRT correcting gyno" subject. It's not entirely fact that exogenous testosterone changes the test:estro ratio... it may or may not. It is possible that aromatization occurs to the point where the ratio is still off, but the levels of both hormones are higher. I THINK what J meant to say that the TRT/HRT PROTOCOL would eliminate the gyno, meaning that testosterone plus ancillary drugs like an AI to keep the numbers of both hormones optimized would create an environment where gyno would no longer be an issue.

On a side note, I think Sperwer here on the forum uses a daily gel. A friend of mine does as well and it has helped him. Daily application was not a great fit for me, but injections work for me. There are advantages and disadvantages of either protocol.

[weekend]

by the way, my dad tried going off TRT because he mistakenly thought the "testosterone would jump start his system"... this is how little his endo communicates.

got tested after 2 months off test and his test was a bit higher than it was before using. he went from 283 to 410 ng/dl.

after using for 2 years. he's back on it now and says he won't go off again!

so jel is right, when your test is that low, you've got nothing to lose.

- - - Updated - - -

If I can interject something about the "TRT correcting gyno" subject. It's not entirely the fact that exogenous testosterone changes the test:estro ratio... it may or may not. It is possible that automatization occurs to the point where the ratio is still off, but the levels of both hormones are higher. I THINK what J meant to say that the TRT/HRT PROTOCOL would eliminate the gyno, meaning that testosterone plus ancillary drugs like an AI to keep the numbers of both hormones optimized would create an environment where gyno would no longer be an issue.

i think this is what he meant as well. there just aren't enough androgens in his system for gyno to just disappear.

[JM1000]

Had no clue gyno was related with androgens!

[DJM]

by the way, my dad tried going off TRT because he mistakenly thought the "testosterone would jump start his system"... this is how little his endo communicates.

got tested after 2 months off test and his test was a bit higher than it was before using. he went from 283 to 410 ng/dl.

after using for 2 years. he's back on it now and says he won't go off again!

so jel is right, when your test is that low, you've got nothing to lose.

- - - Updated - - -




i think this is what he meant as well. there just aren't enough androgens in his system for gyno to just disappear.

id agree with this too
end of the day its a delicate balance to optimize hormones

[Jelisej]

basically, when it comes to E2, I would say that estradiol should be around 25 pg/ml +/- 10, some folks feel better on lower and some on higher end, but basically E2 should be kept there, so obviously adding testosterone would change ratio, and that would eventually sort out gyno
As for gel/patches, they are waste of time really, no serious endo will prescribe you gel/patches- as it is simply not easy to maintain stable levels which is vital for success, assuming that adrenals/thyroid are set, once you find right test. dosage- (and right dosage is the one that keeps free test. at the top), next you make sure progesterone is at the top as well or even bit higher (as prog will protect your prostate plus other benefits) and then you top up your DHT levels if not sufficient, and IMO best way to do that is to use Andractim DHT gel, and DHT should be kept above range as well, somewhere on 50 % above us where most feel ok, and get most benefits, to have DHT more than that does not give additional benefits really just sides.

Fix list in right order:
Adrenal
Thyroid
Sex hormones; test. E2
Growth Hormone

[pman42]

Jeli, I actually read up on Andactrim when investigating all of this. It looks interesting but is not listed in the pharmacopeia of Canada. so I would have to apply for a Health Canada drug exemption then pay most likely full price for it, since I doubt it would be covered under health benefits. I'd be paying at least a couple hundred according to some transsexual blogs I read (I swear I was only reading them for info on Andactrim!).

I've seen some studies where the patch resulted in steady blood increases into the normal range, so it definitely is do-able. But there may be a lot more factors than a simple injection, like skin thickness, sweat, etc. On the other hand, I am looking at taking a lengthy vacation coming up, and if we're talking 3x weekly injections then that means hauling tons of needles and a sharps container, explaining to customs, yada yada. I can see the pluses and minuses of both approaches.

the endos I've read aren't totally dismissive of patch, they comment that in some men it doesn't raise blood levels high enough. But if you drop a penny into a thimble of water it raises the level, that's kinda what I feel my test. levels are like.

[Jelisej]

I should not be saying this- but you can get Andractim from Europe. Funny thing is as backward as they are European endos still do prescribe dht to patients while American are against it, anyway I know that lot of them are ordering andractim from Europe, they have no problems whatsoever.

Again, with patches its simply harder way, and even majority of those who start with patches end up with shots- point is to reach balance among hormones, and if you cant get stable or high enough test levels it is very hard work to get it done, and those who are for whatever reason stuck with patches usually have to use a lot more than than they are ment to be used.

"But if you drop a penny into a thimble of water it raises the level, that's kinda what I feel my test. levels are like. " Thing is once you add exogenous testosterone your own production will stop, so you need to add lot more than you think. And if you are adding than add enough, once I heard expression that I liked a lot:
"Better to live hundred years as a millioner than a week as a poor bloke".


I always felt sorry for that astronaut who went all the way to the moon but never actually walked on it.... So close but so far....