1st cycle, help with proper PCT

[Cdsnuts]

I'm not on TRT, tough I may join club at some point. Anyway- your question: "did you try everything possible to naturally get the juices flowing again before doing replacement?

Well, honestly there are not many possibilites there, really... Things like "SERM restart or clomid restart" work only for people who have "glitch" in a system, for people with congenital hypogonadism or with testicular trauma or damage or brain injury or infection that affects hypotalamus or pituary, it does not really work. Of all pre-TRT folks, restarts would work for minority of people.
Raising testosterone natural is usually expensive and it can only raise t levels for maybe 200 points, maybe bit more- so its ok if your natural levels are 600 ng/dl, if they are 300-400 even with raise using test boosters one will still be in "grey zone"
and most of this methods dont raise free test, apart of DAA which potentially can cause death of brain cells- and free test is what makes us happy
so unfortunately for majority TRT/HRT is best option. Another option is to improve financial status to as many homeopaths and research companies as possible. Thats good for economy, but usually not for patient.

Lastly- there are quite few folks out there who had tt levels of around 800 ng/dl, but with high SHBG levels they did not have much of it, as altough tt has its own receptors- it cannot cross blood-brain-barrier, and if it cant than it cant makes as happy.
Many of these guys were quite miserable (despite high tt), took testosterone injection and next day wake up as completely different person.

It just seems like alot of guys are going to TRT that don't have any of the problems you mentioned. I could see it make sense to jump on if you have some of the congenital defects you speak of, but alot of times what we're seeing are guys that are just not taking care of themselves, putting their T in the basement and then jumping on TRT without doing what they should to clean up their acts. (Not talking about any of you guys, just what I see in general) That's why I'm asking....out of curiousity.

I was damaged by propecia years ago and have since made a full recovery. I used the info on this site Boost Your Low Testosterone! Increase Low T Levels Naturally to get most of it done naturally. There is some great info on this site and not just your general run of the mill stuff. I thought about doing TRT as well, but wanted to exhaust all possible avenues of natural recovery before making a lifelong commitment.

The four cycles of androhard of course helped my body create the enzymes that were destroyed by propecia. That, and the numerous emails with Eric sent me back to the land of the living.

The point is, I wanted to share this info to guys that may find it usefull. Nothing more.

[Jelisej]

I'm really glad for you bro', but more than anything else- you got lucky. You are one in thousand people with same problem who solved the problem, many others tried so many things with no avail. Also you are fairly young, if 50+ years old person suffers from low t, natural ways, restart usually dont help that much, and restarting to 500 ng/dl does not mean much.

Thing is, average person suffering from low testosterone is not in a good position and usually also suffer from depression etc... And not many people knows a lot about endocrine system- so if they go to endo and he prescribes them TRT, they will go on TRT, in other situations they get under influence of some anti-ageing clinic or some herbalist or sometimes they end up on "dark side" using AAS.... So lot depends on "pure chance", and other circumstances- for example if one is in Somalia- there are thin chances that he'll fix problems...

[burlyman30]

Not trying to derail this thread, but you guys that are on TRT.....did you try everything possible to naturally get the juices flowing again before doing replacement? Or was it just so miserable of an existence that taking months do get yourself going again naturally just wasn't an option?

I never tried a SERM restart, but I spent a few years back and forth with OTC test boosters. Highest I ever remember being tested during that time was high 300s to low 400s. I was fighting an unwinnable battle, but I was trying to stay off TRT as long as I could. In the end, it was a simpler, cheaper and better option to go on TRT.

[Cdsnuts]

I'm really glad for you bro', but more than anything else- you got lucky. You are one in thousand people with same problem who solved the problem, many others tried so many things with no avail. Also you are fairly young, if 50+ years old person suffers from low t, natural ways, restart usually dont help that much, and restarting to 500 ng/dl does not mean much.

Thing is, average person suffering from low testosterone is not in a good position and usually also suffer from depression etc... And not many people knows a lot about endocrine system- so if they go to endo and he prescribes them TRT, they will go on TRT, in other situations they get under influence of some anti-ageing clinic or some herbalist or sometimes they end up on "dark side" using AAS.... So lot depends on "pure chance", and other circumstances- for example if one is in Somalia- there are thin chances that he'll fix problems...

I won't doubt luck had a small part, but I won't discount the amount of work I put into getting there either. It wasn't just popping OTC test boosters either. It was a complete lifestyle change. Different exercise routines, completely different diet, testicle painting, ball zingers, edging, the whole nine yards. It was also in the WAY I took the T boosters. Cycling them in a specific way that most people don't do. It sucked for a long while but my persistence paid off.

I'm pretty sure if certain guys in certain situations just put in the work, they'ed be able to get there as well.

[Cdsnuts]

I never tried a SERM restart, but I spent a few years back and forth with OTC test boosters. Highest I ever remember being tested during that time was high 300s to low 400s. I was fighting an unwinnable battle, but I was trying to stay off TRT as long as I could. In the end, it was a simpler, cheaper and better option to go on TRT.

Burly....do you find that you get the swings associated with TRT? Or have you got it down to the point where you administer your doses evenly enough so that that doesn't happen?

[burlyman30]

Burly....do you find that you get the swings associated with TRT? Or have you got it down to the point where you administer your doses evenly enough so that that doesn't happen?

I am still fine tuning things. Endo had me at e10d, now at e7d. I can feel a drop by day 5, so I will be petitioning for 1/2 dose e4d at my next appointment.

[Jelisej]

I won't doubt luck had a small part, but I won't discount the amount of work I put into getting there either. It wasn't just popping OTC test boosters either. It was a complete lifestyle change. Different exercise routines, completely different diet, testicle painting, ball zingers, edging, the whole nine yards. It was also in the WAY I took the T boosters. Cycling them in a specific way that most people don't do. It sucked for a long while but my persistence paid off.
I'm pretty sure if certain guys in certain situations just put in the work, they'ed be able to get there as well.

So, are you now off all test boosters or you still have to top up with supps?

[JakkCity]

As I think back, I never really had any type of flu or sickness. I've worked on call for years and then all of a sudden I started getting anxiety, mind was racing 1,000 miles an hour, hands shaking etc. went to the doc and was put on a low dose of anxiety medicine aka depression med (deff not a depressed person at all) by about day 3 of the new pill, anxiety was a lot better, got better sleep etc. Went to the gym to work out, which I normally work out anywhere from 1.5-2 hrs heavy weights. Anyway, 3 days into the pills I struggled and was completely exhausted/fatigued after 20 mins. Thought I just needed a couple days off, but after a break and still on the pill i still could only manage 15-20 mins and had no focus, tired, yawning etc. Told the doc so they switched meds(cant remember the name) and still bad workouts and couldnt get it up. Basically she said my next option was Xanax, but I opted not to(maybe if I was 18 I'd jump all over that). Always tried different test boosters, and used the usual whey protein, pwo, aminos etc, and even upping dosages on workout supps just to see if it would help feel any better was unsuccessful. Reason I am looking into the endo for answers.

I know a lot of my buddies who are using testosterone and say they all feel great like they are 18 again and are pushing some good weight, so I started looking into it myself(and still am) but would like to see if there is anything my doc has missed that the endo will pick up.

[Jelisej]

"but would like to see if there is anything my doc has missed that the endo will pick up. "

Yes, that is exactly what you should do, investigate.

Hormones and neurotransmitters are tightly connected, and they influence each other- any kind of hormonal problem (which can be caused by million reasons) will reflect on neurotransmitters which results in one or more of following- anxiety, depression, irritability, lack of motivation etc.... And it also reflects on central nervous system...
So if you find root problem and fix it, your training and wellbeing in general will improve.

[Cdsnuts]

So, are you now off all test boosters or you still have to top up with supps?

No....thankfully I am good to go. Thank God. That part of my life was a living hell. I can sympathize with people who are dealing with those symptoms. At my worst, life just didn't seem worth living. It was such a hassle to have to plan my functioning around my supps so that I could perform when I needed to. It caused all kinds of undue anxiety. It is such a liberating feeling to function normally again and be able to perform at the drop of a hat. No taking cialis or viagra or making sure I had boosted my hormones with supplements that day......

That is why I loved PP so much. I was able to cycle relatively completely safe compounds and always came out the other end of a cycle BETTER then when I went in. This to me was worth every penny they charged. I'm one of those guys who don't mind paying for the safety aspect of those products. I still pick up androhard if I can find it and I pay the premium price too. Because of where I've been, I'm nervous to try any other product, which is why I haven't. I would hate to put myself back into a subpar hormonal situation after what I've come back from.

Androhard, Androdrive and dermacrine are the only compounds I've used and continue to use because I don't miss a beat when it comes to recovering. Pct is always smooth sailing.

YOu did mention something that has alarmed me though in regards to DAA. I use TCF-1 in PCT but never heard of any reports of brain damage from that supplement. That is obviously something that has me on edge and thinking twice about using it again. Can you provide your source for this information?