Clomid study discussion

[Jelisej]

I dont like this advanced enhancement science section- its full of studies, but these studies are misguiding and I'm worried that youngsters may get idea how "cycles" are very safe and you can always sort out mess with help of clomid.
Clomid is portrayed better than it is in those studies, as there are failed restarts.
Study with proviron/mesterlone does not say dosage- it may be very low dosage, and we dont know anything about hormonal profile of treated patients. From my knowledge/experience proviron is supressive.

[h2s]

I dont like this advanced enhancement science section- its full of studies, but these studies are misguiding and I'm worried that youngsters may get idea how "cycles" are very safe and you can always sort out mess with help of clomid.
Clomid is portrayed better than it is in those studies, as there are failed restarts.
Study with proviron/mesterlone does not say dosage- it may be very low dosage, and we dont know anything about hormonal profile of treated patients. From my knowledge/experience proviron is supressive.

I am not sure what is misguiding about the studies. The database is meant to act as a catalog of studies pertaining to a topic. That is why they display abstracts. One can quickly see what studies have been done, what their key message was, and if they are interested in going into the subject in more detail, it links to the pubmed entry which generally can lead someone to a full text.

Your statement "Clomid is portrayed better than it is in those studies, as there are failed restarts," I don't understand. There are studies on anti-depressants, yet people who commit suicide on them. There is studies on blood pressure medications, yet there are people who have heart attacks on them. That doesn't mean the studies should be discounted.

The "Youngsters" are probably not digging through a study database, they are on message boards that respond to "im new" with take "30mg of superdrol bro." That is not what Primordial's community was, nor what this one should be through transition.

[Jelisej]

I am not sure what is misguiding about the studies. The database is meant to act as a catalog of studies pertaining to a topic. That is why they display abstracts. One can quickly see what studies have been done, what their key message was, and if they are interested in going into the subject in more detail, it links to the pubmed entry which generally can lead someone to a full text.

Your statement "Clomid is portrayed better than it is in those studies, as there are failed restarts," I don't understand. There are studies on anti-depressants, yet people who commit suicide on them. There is studies on blood pressure medications, yet there are people who have heart attacks on them. That doesn't mean the studies should be discounted.

The "Youngsters" are probably not digging through a study database, they are on message boards that respond to "im new" with take "30mg of superdrol bro." That is not what Primordial's community was, nor what this one should be through transition.

What I'm saying is that in these studies there is no mention of side-effects and failures, which do happen. I just want that to be understood by "30 mgs superdrol bro's" and other youngsters before they jump on steroid/ph's bandwagon.

[BBG]

The study was done on older men with no apparent past use of anabolics.

Also, I have a feeling that giving DHT to men with failing testicular function can actually boost testosterone levels, or at least maintain the same testosterone levels (in the low range) but increase sense of well being, libido, etc.

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What I'm saying is that in these studies there is no mention of side-effects of failures, which do happen. I just want that to be understood by "30 mgs superdrol bro's" and other youngsters before they jump on steroid/ph's bandwagon.

I don't understand what "side-effects of failures" means. Do you mean like, if someone doesn't recover testicular function after a cycle?

[Jelisej]

The study was done on older men with no apparent past use of anabolics.

Also, I have a feeling that giving DHT to men with failing testicular function can actually boost testosterone levels, or at least maintain the same testosterone levels (in the low range) but increase sense of well being, libido, etc.

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I don't understand what "side-effects of failures" means. Do you mean like, if someone doesn't recover testicular function after a cycle?

Mistyped- I meant "on failures" (to restart or recover). As for DHT it usualy does increase feeling of wellbeing, and for people with low tt its not always too supressive- but for majority is. And for many guys testosterone levels took dive after supplementing DHT.
If LH levels are not supressed it does not meant that testosterone levels were not reduced. Few guys after couple of months on Testosterone injections still had serum LH present in their blood tests.
"end of the line" hormones are always very supressive.

[burlyman30]

Mistyped- I meant "on failures" (to restart or recover). As for DHT it usualy does increase feeling of wellbeing, and for people with low tt its not always too supressive- but for majority is. And for many guys testosterone levels took dive after supplementing DHT.

Bolded is in conflict with the studies on Proviron I posted in the Proviron and Androgens section.

[Jelisej]

Bolded is in conflict with the studies on Proviron I posted in the Proviron and Androgens section.

Yes, that is because that study is incomplete. It includes only specific group of people, dosages were probably very low.
There is another proviron study in which shows there was supression- but there they used higher dosages, that study was probably incomplete as well. Anyway- from anecdotal evidences first SHBG and then testosterone levels were reduced after supplementing with DHT.

[h2s]

Yes, that is because that study is incomplete. It includes only specific group of people, dosages were probably very low.
There is another proviron study in which shows there was supression- but there they used higher dosages, that study was probably incomplete as well. Anyway- from anecdotal evidences first SHBG and then testosterone levels were reduced after supplementing with DHT.

But see, that is the point of this system. You could then introduce the study you reference in this post to the database, depicting the opposite scenario and use that in your discussion in the advanced enhance subforum.

[Grape Ape]

If we don't want young kids, idiots(not that I'm not), and the inexperienced then why don't we make this site invite only? Each member gets 1 invite per a month.

Okay, carry on boys. Clomid and shit dawg.

[Jelisej]

If we don't want young kids, idiots(not that I'm not), and the inexperienced then why don't we make this site invite only? Each member gets 1 invite per a month.

Okay, carry on boys. Clomid and shit dawg.

You took that out of context.
We all do want young kids on forum, and all other types of people- what I dont want is that they get wrong idea how some compounds are safe or how it is easy to get HPTA going when shit hits the fan, as that will encourage them to start ph's/roids before they should. That could mess up their endocrine system- and no one wants that. That's all.