Blood test rports- help guys

[addy]

and in my case dont u think i should first bring down my E2 in range?? wouldnt tht mean more test as there will be less coversion to estrogen cos of AI ? so tht would mean some more test levels and then accordingly after blood test i can try clomid to raise my test levels more ?? what do u think ?

[Jelisej]

i m reading the article and have some questions bro:-

Q:1-we know the guy had low test levels when he visited the doctor, but was his E2 also high? or did the E2 go up when he used clomid?

A:Was his E2 high? Probably. Well, "body" point of view was that it was high- tough "body" gets message through receptors, so if receptors are messed up "body" gets wrong info, so sometimes guys may not have really high estrogen levels tough usually in this kind of scenario guys do have high estrogen levels.
Sometimes in later stages even estrogen levels drop along with test. levels so person has both low test. and estrogen.
Obviously there are other conditions where estrogen levels are low, but these are different scenarios.
In you particular case scenario is most likely to be similar to those guys, tough some other problem can become transparent- for example you may have some other condition or even your adrenals may be underperforming which would result in lot of aromatisation.

Q:2- I am completely confused with this paragraph:-"Estrogen Receptors in the Hypothalamus Control the Whole Thing
in this paragraph it is written tht in males the estrogen receptors(did u mean testosterone receptors) controls the LH and FSH production and by clomid v can block this estrogen receptor in the hypothalamus right?? BUT if estrogen receptors are producing LH and FSH then y block it ???and first it says clomid will block the receptor that controls the production of LH n FSH and then it says it will stimulate the hypothalamus which in turn stimulates pituitary which stimulates LH n FSH production i m so confused with this ??
OR by, estrogen receptor controlling LH n FSH we mean tht HIGH LEVELS OF ESTROGEN controls or slows down the production of LH n FSH ?? and so when we take clomid we block the estrogen receptor which will lower the estrogen?

A:"Estrogen Receptors in the Hypothalamus Control the Whole Thing"- this is so clearly and well said, that I dont understand what is confusing you.
When you block estrogen receptors (in brain), body thinks that there is no estrogen so it raises LH. Other good thing is that receptors become more sensitive, and thus more effective.
Obviously, as testosterone levels raise estrogen will as well (via aromatise) but thats why we use some AI among other stuff.
Remember- estrogen in men is made from testosterone via aromatise, so in order to raise estrogen body has to raise testosterone (via LH). Body itself is more interested in estrogen than in testosterone.

Q:3:- we know when we take exogenous test, the excess test also causes the HPTA to stop releasing GNRH- wat we call shut shut down when v do a cycle ! does high estrogen also signals Hypothalamus to stop producing GNRH?? does this mean both high test and high E2 shuts us down??


A: E2 is main trigger for hypotalamus, tough other hormones play role as well but not as much and it depends from person to person- for example even if person use only DHT it is going to slow down testosterone production or even stop it completely, but generally at much slower rate (depending on may factors)
DHEA has ability to convert to E2 as well, for some folks more than for others, and it can sometime activate some estrogen receptors... Anyway there are lot of mechanism we dont know much about.

As for lowering E2, I would say same thing as for vit D- it goes along with, clomid restart, you may start AI first but not neccessary. Now dosage of AI is tricky bit, different people need different doses. In any case, clomid should be used for sake of sensitation of receptors.

[addy]

i m reading the article and have some questions bro:-

Q:1-we know the guy had low test levels when he visited the doctor, but was his E2 also high? or did the E2 go up when he used clomid?

A:Was his E2 high? Probably. Well, "body" point of view was that it was high- tough "body" gets message through receptors, so if receptors are messed up "body" gets wrong info, so sometimes guys may not have really high estrogen levels tough usually in this kind of scenario guys do have high estrogen levels.
Sometimes in later stages even estrogen levels drop along with test. levels so person has both low test. and estrogen.
Obviously there are other conditions where estrogen levels are low, but these are different scenarios.
In you particular case scenario is most likely to be similar to those guys, tough some other problem can become transparent- for example you may have some other condition or even your adrenals may be underperforming which would result in lot of aromatisation.

Q:2- I am completely confused with this paragraph:-"Estrogen Receptors in the Hypothalamus Control the Whole Thing
in this paragraph it is written tht in males the estrogen receptors(did u mean testosterone receptors) controls the LH and FSH production and by clomid v can block this estrogen receptor in the hypothalamus right?? BUT if estrogen receptors are producing LH and FSH then y block it ???and first it says clomid will block the receptor that controls the production of LH n FSH and then it says it will stimulate the hypothalamus which in turn stimulates pituitary which stimulates LH n FSH production i m so confused with this ??
OR by, estrogen receptor controlling LH n FSH we mean tht HIGH LEVELS OF ESTROGEN controls or slows down the production of LH n FSH ?? and so when we take clomid we block the estrogen receptor which will lower the estrogen?

A:"Estrogen Receptors in the Hypothalamus Control the Whole Thing"- this is so clearly and well said, that I dont understand what is confusing you.
When you block estrogen receptors (in brain), body thinks that there is no estrogen so it raises LH. Other good thing is that receptors become more sensitive, and thus more effective.
Obviously, as testosterone levels raise estrogen will as well (via aromatise) but thats why we use some AI among other stuff.
Remember- estrogen in men is made from testosterone via aromatise, so in order to raise estrogen body has to raise testosterone (via LH). Body itself is more interested in estrogen than in testosterone.

Q:3:- we know when we take exogenous test, the excess test also causes the HPTA to stop releasing GNRH- wat we call shut shut down when v do a cycle ! does high estrogen also signals Hypothalamus to stop producing GNRH?? does this mean both high test and high E2 shuts us down??


A: E2 is main trigger for hypotalamus, tough other hormones play role as well but not as much and it depends from person to person- for example even if person use only DHT it is going to slow down testosterone production or even stop it completely, but generally at much slower rate (depending on may factors)
DHEA has ability to convert to E2 as well, for some folks more than for others, and it can sometime activate some estrogen receptors... Anyway there are lot of mechanism we dont know much about.

As for lowering E2, I would say same thing as for vit D- it goes along with, clomid restart, you may start AI first but not neccessary. Now dosage of AI is tricky bit, different people need different doses. In any case, clomid should be used for sake of sensitation of receptors.

thanks a lot my brother for a detailed answer all the time , understanding quite a bit now ! but bro as u r saying clomid would trick my brain to produce mpre LH/FSH by blocking to my estrogen receptors in brain only right? as they do it at selected areas!

Just read abt nolvadex, clomid and arimidex, just observed a few things :- pls correct me if m wrong

NOlvadex , Clomid:- serms, they just try to block the actions of the estrogen already present in the body in other words "The drug competitively binds to estrogen receptors in various target tissues. With the tamoxifen molecule bound to this receptor, estrogen is blocked from exerting any action"

Arimidex:- it blocks the aromatisation of test to estrogen ,IWO "It acts by blocking the enzyme aromatase, subsequently blocking the production of estrogen"

SO in my case as i have high E2 which probably gave me gyno there would be no point in taking a serm like nolva or clomid at the moment because as they say damage has been done and as these drugs they block the actions of estrogen and doesnt lower it so in that case an AI which stops the aromatisation at first place, should be thing for me !
also generally then doesn't this make an AI like arimidex a better choice to use at all times i mean on cycle and post cycle too cos while on cycle when the aromatisation starts we can simply take it and stop it there and then ?? and in pct also when there is estrogen in the body it helps lowering it too while raising ur test levels also?? so wouldnt AI wud b a good choice ?

[Jelisej]

Yes, you need an AI obviously- but you need SERM as well, they block estrogen receptors "only" but that has it own merits. It will refresh your receptors, they will be somewhat more sensitive, plus it has an effect in some other areas, they will somewhat increase testicular sensitivity to LH as well.
If you just use AI it will lower your E2 and it will increase testosterone, but as soon as you stop taking it, situation will return to current situation. You want to do "clomid restart" so hopefully after you finished your HPTA will return to normal, where you dont need medication. Anyway in some of those articles its bit better explained, re-read them again.
Other possible issue will be adrenals, but will see what happens.