What all can be done for gyno outside of surgery?

[moler]

So I just spent the last 2 years of my life saving money for surgery to get rid of pubertal gyno, until I just recently found out it's possible to get rid of it without surgery.

I've seen the pubmed research on nolva and ralox, people here seem to think prami(30 man hours of searching around forums and with google and i'd never heard of prami for gyno) works as well, and some other drugs.

There's so much mis and outdated information out there, can anyone summarize everything I can do pre-surgery to try and get rid of it? Links to studies, theory/logic any sort of evidence would be awesome, please don't pop in here and nakedly assert I can do X and Y and that works.

So i'm taking raloxifene as of now, I'm at 17% bf working towards 9-10, specializing on pulls-ups/preacher curls i've heard helps the appearance and i'm doing that as well. I'm eating and living far healthier than when it developed(when I was 16-20) and I believe my T levels are higher, sex drive is higher than ever. I was also pretty chubby at 230lbs, 170 as of today so maybe it's a bit of loose skin as well? Maybe some of the creams or w/e would help to tighten it up. Fuck, money isn't really a problem for me as I was about to drop 7k on surgery.

On the study that did comparing nolva and ralox to get rid of gyno, it's interesting that they noted in a handful of cases gyno was completely eliminated. I've never heard of anyone on the forums trying to get rid of gyno with ralox and totally succeeding, it's always 70-80%, never quite good enough.

Fuck that, I want it completely gone.

[Jelisej]

If you were saving money for 2 years to get rid of gyno, it means it has been there for way too long, and in my opinion in that case surgery is best option as it would take very long time to get rid of it, and would actually be more expensive, chances of getting rid of it would be less than with surgery, and on top of that you would still be putting your health (and endocrine system) at risk.
There should be no scars with surgery, it that bothers you.

[moler]

Thanks for the reply.

In the studies they did with raloxifene, they were on men with pubertal gynomacastia so i'm assuming they'd had it quite awhile and it still was effective.

Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in ... [J Pediatr. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

"No side effects were seen in any patients." You disagree on that? Could you explain? I know steroids can fuck your hormonal systems up for life, I wasn't aware I was at risk with something like ralox/nolva.

If I couild do the surgery today I would, I talked to a plastic-surgeon and he recommend I lose as much weight as I can, in his words "Surgery is the scalpel, weight loss the sledge hammer." Until than, you'd recommend I don't touch even ralox(I just started as of today)?

[BBG]

DHT + Prami + SERM + AI + Get as lean as you can.

If I had to sum it up in one sentence, that's it.

In reality, it's a ridiculously complicated subject and most of us agree gyno that is from puberty can't be removed without surgery, it can only be reduced. And even then, most of the reduction is not usually permanent.

[moler]

"it can only be reduced."

I'm definitely interested in just reducing it for the time being. I'm afraid with surgery i'm gonna need more than 1(one to tighten/lift the skin after) which is even more expensive and I can't afford right now.

If I have no hope of totally getting rid of it, I guess the plan as of now is take raloxifene and raloxifene alone while cutting to 10% bodyfat and than just see how I feel there. Unless jelisej or someone else has a compelling argument against messing with my hormones. Honestly i'll probably take ralox either way, surgery has so much stress and bs that comes with it and at this pont i'd risk my life to be over this.

[Jelisej]

The question is can you really drop to 10% bf? In other words, if your hormonal balance is not good than it can be rally mission impossible, and if you have been overweight for very long time it can indicate problems, and also it means that you will have problems with excess skin.
On top of that, even if you would use a some of more efficient AAS it would take a long time (for both fat loss and gyno reduction).
As for surgery, from what I've seen from surgery in southeast of Europe- it was always good, you would never tell that gyno was there, even nipples they somehow sort out, and it was not even very expensive.
And its not just endocrine system in question when using "supplementation"- it is also bone density, as at some point AI will be needed and improper usage can lead to problems with bones- and you cant even tell that problem is there 'till they start breaking.
Even strong dopamine agonists like pramipexole, dostinex are not too helpful, and in return they lead to desensitation of dopamine receptors which is not good thing, really. If there are no issues with prolactin I would not touch them.

When adult men for some reason get poor androgen:estrogen ratio/balance often they get gyno, lot of times restoring ratio will lead to gyno slowly dissapearing, but when its been there for a while it becomes fibrous- and is hard to get rid of it- after puberty for some guys it goes away, for some it does not and in most cases its because it became fibrous- tough sometimes it because of hypogonadism.

My suggestion is, before embarking on self-medicating trip, see endo, do some tests, and then see whats best option.
To me it seems that you are bit too young for messing up with hormones.

Tough I must say 7K is proper rip-off, I think you can go on hollidays somewhere and have it done there, it would be much cheaper.

[weekend]

Definitely find a better price and get the surgery. I am sad I pumped myself with all these drugs to reduce gyno for the last year, and though I've had some success, it can randomly flare to full size again. If you don't get the surgery then expect problems to continue forever. Get the surgery, get lean after and build a big chest. Your skin will be fine after that.

I plan to use drugs to keep it down after this cycle and then stop all of them when things level out... After that I'm strongly considering not doing another cycle unless I get the surgery first. Much rather just take an AI and be done with it.

[moler]

" see endo, do some tests, and then see whats best option."

That would be great but I just don't see the point. Let's say my androgen:estrogen balance is off, i'm living as healthy as I possibly can. What else can really be done? I mean i'm fully functional, it's not like I have ed or depression. And as far as i'm aware anti-estrogen is the only thing proven to help pubertal/persistant gyno. I'm already taking that, lol.

I had a consultation with a surgeon and he told me I'd inevitably need surgery to have a nice looking chest. Honestly I just have to lose the weight first to see for myself, make sure it's not fat. I mean it's surgery here bro's, I see no reason to rush into it. If I can't get to 10% Bf so be it, but surely i'll try first.

Plus every surgeon specializing in gyno(all good plastic surgeons) either strongly recommends you're fairly thin if not outright refusing surgery on fat dudes.

I'm going to run ralox and cut! I'm on unemployment for 3 more months till work starts up so I've 2 months of cutting+raloxifene than scheduling surgery if I still need it.

If anyone's interested i'll update with some before and after pictures.(including surgery if it comes to it).

[guardianactual]

What about AAS induced gyno?

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What about AAS induced gyno?

[moler]

3 weeks on raloxifene, I went out of state so didn't start my diet until a 5 days ago, although it's been extreme. I believe i'm down only 2lbs tops: Here's pics from 21 days:

REMOVEhttps://imageshack.com/a/wa0q/1REMOVE

Only 2 before pics, you can pretty easily guess which are which. I'm making it look a bit worse than it does with normal body language, it really doesn't look too awful anymore. I could take my shirt off at a swimming pool or a beach.