Considering a cycle, first timer

[KGPL]

New member here, I've been considering running a cycle for a while now and have been trying to do as much research as physically possible to understand every aspect that I can. I've decided on one thing for certain though, no injections.

Here's a bit about me:
18.5 years old
Just over 3 years training experience
Paid my dues in regards to strength training. (600 deadlift, 405 squat, 285 bench. These have dropped since I cut, but foundation is there)
Diet/nutrition is in check
Multiple experiences with bulking/cutting. Started at 270lbs, cut to 160ish, then bulked/cut my way to ~200lbs at a low BF%. 5'11".
Have some gyno from obese childhood and some not so tight skin, keeping me from getting a dry appearance.


Overall goals with running a cycle:
Drop some BF%, hopefully shrink gyno, and obtain vascular/dry appearance. I do not need to worry about packing on size really, I can do that with food just fine. Maybe add some strength, but they all will do this to a degree.

Obviously, I want as few side effects as possible. Will run with liver supports and proper PCT. Planning on mild compounds.


Compounds I've considered:
Ironmaglabs epi andro+_______
Epistane
Tbol



Now I know I will get all sorts of comments about cycling at my age. Please, go ahead and throw as many comments you want towards me. I'm open to everything and want to learn as much as possible. It's a gamble at my age, but with research and proper product use I feel as if I can reduce the chance of anything going south.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I can gladly post pictures of my current physique as proof that I'm not just some 18 yearold wanting to "GET HUGE QUICK," as I'm sure you guys see plenty of those threads...

[BBG]

Well... I think you're too young (even though I started out just before I turned 20). But... Epistane is pretty awesome. Halodrol is a good choice as well.

You probably won't shrink gyno on cycle and you definitely don't want to be running an AI without something that aromatizes. Most of the time that's just bad news and will definitely hinder gains.

[KGPL]

Well... I think you're too young (even though I started out just before I turned 20). But... Epistane is pretty awesome. Halodrol is a good choice as well.

You probably won't shrink gyno on cycle and you definitely don't want to be running an AI without something that aromatizes. Most of the time that's just bad news and will definitely hinder gains.

I've heard some seemingly "too good to be true" stories about epistane and it's effects on gyno.

I know that physically, I am too young, but the side effects can greatly be reduced by a proper cycle. Still doing research, just trying out more specifics so I can hopefully find other logs/experiences from those at a similar age.


So no Nolva if I were to use epiandro? What would PCT be?

My main concern with epistane is how harsh it is on the liver, which is why I considered epiandro in the first place as it seems to have no relation to liver issues.

I'll post up some pictures of my physique tomorrow to give you guys an idea where I am.

[BBG]

Epistane will be totally fine at 40mg for 4-6 weeks. You shouldn't have any liver problems unless you're predisposed to them.

PCT is simple, just 40/40/20/20 for nolva. Or 120/120/60/60 -OR- 120/80/60/60 for Toremifene.

[VayneZ]

That is some pretty HEAVY deadlifting!!!

[burlyman30]

Welcome to the forum. I'll admit, you've put in some time and accomplished quite a bit with your lifts, so nice going. And I would feel a little hypocritical saying "don't start hormonals so young", as I was 19 when I began, though I had 6 years or training and high-level competing by that time. I personally think that if you can make more gains without anabolics, then it is wiser to do so prior to jumping on. I started on gear because I had stalled completely for over a year.

So now that the "opinion" is out of the way, if you are dead-set on starting anabolics, something like epiandro is a mild anabolic, high androgenic product that will bring some mild to moderate gains. BBG mentioned epistane and halodrol. Those would probably be the next step up in anabolism. Halodrol would put on a bit more size than the epistane. They are both methylated, so you'd want liver supports. They are also more suppressive than epiandro.

Keep in mind what your ultimate end goal is. And what it is that you need to do to get to that point.

[Scope75]

X2 what all these guys have said and I'd recommend just starting out with some Epi Andro RX or PNs Epi Andro Hard.

I think 4-6caps of Epi Andro RX for 6-8wks would treat you very well and not be to taxing on the body.

[markam]

X2 what all these guys have said and I'd recommend just starting out with some Epi Andro RX or PNs Epi Andro Hard.

I think 4-6caps of Epi Andro RX for 6-8wks would treat you very well and not be to taxing on the body.

+5 pumps Dermacrine ed. Great first cycle!

[KGPL]

Welcome to the forum. I'll admit, you've put in some time and accomplished quite a bit with your lifts, so nice going. And I would feel a little hypocritical saying "don't start hormonals so young", as I was 19 when I began, though I had 6 years or training and high-level competing by that time. I personally think that if you can make more gains without anabolics, then it is wiser to do so prior to jumping on. I started on gear because I had stalled completely for over a year.

So now that the "opinion" is out of the way, if you are dead-set on starting anabolics, something like epiandro is a mild anabolic, high androgenic product that will bring some mild to moderate gains. BBG mentioned epistane and halodrol. Those would probably be the next step up in anabolism. Halodrol would put on a bit more size than the epistane. They are both methylated, so you'd want liver supports. They are also more suppressive than epiandro.

Keep in mind what your ultimate end goal is. And what it is that you need to do to get to that point.

Appreciate the advice from everyone.

I'm still not 100% set on going towards anabolics, but mainly just taking my research to the next level in case I do decide to go that route in the near future. The more I learn on this, the better chance I have a positive outcome if I were to use them.

Is there any reason for me to be stacking epistane with epi andro? Obviously, I would want to see some results afterwards, but if this would be too much, then I would stick to just one of them.

[burlyman30]

Appreciate the advice from everyone.

I'm still not 100% set on going towards anabolics, but mainly just taking my research to the next level in case I do decide to go that route in the near future. The more I learn on this, the better chance I have a positive outcome if I were to use them.

Is there any reason for me to be stacking epistane with epi andro? Obviously, I would want to see some results afterwards, but if this would be too much, then I would stick to just one of them.

I think epiandro plus epistane might be too dry on the joints. Both are anti-estrogenic.

For a first time cycler, and possibly even several cycles in, I would typically recommend only one compound because until you know how that compound acts on its own in your body, you would be hard pressed to determine what effects are from what compound.