Help Me With My PCT!

[weekend]

I went back on cycle because my ED was so bad that cialis and such didnt help.

My libido did not go away, however. I felt like i was still on cycle with regards to feeling "eager" haha

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Do you at least have a recommendation for the use of hmg and hcg leading up? Should i stop the hcg for the last few weeks of cycle to decrease the desensitization?

[Jelisej]

Well, your E2 could be bit high, some people are more sensitive to higher levels of E2 than others, and typically you have E2 on lower side so that may be reason, also some compounds like nandrolone (not sure if tren is one of them) have an longer effect on some neurotransmitters especially serotonin which is tightly linked to E2 so even that can be cause.
Other likely thing is excess epinephrine/norepinephrine- this is not just an erection destroyer it prevents erection from happening altogether- and this can be caused by lot of things- anxiety, low cortisol level, CNS overstimulation, stress, etc....

Regarding HCG/HMG last injection I think is best 2 days before PCT.
Desensitation is something that clomiphene should help with along with mixed nuts/toco and taladafil, and that is also one of reasons why I recommend longer PCT as it helps somewhat with both pituary and testicle desensitation.

[weekend]

I had an idea of running hcg higher up until pct and then using 75 iu hmg 1x/week for the first four weeks

Is that totally dumb?

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Oh also my e2 was super low when i felt bad but i wasnt using anything

In retrospect a serm probably wouldve helped a lot at that time.

[Jelisej]

I dont see a point of running higher HCG as it has more potential sides (desensitation) and it does not really prove more effective. I think that 500 IU is not much more effective than 250 IU, 250- 300 IU is where it gives most of benefits. Tough it varies a lot from person to person, some are better with more frequent and smaller doses some in less frequent but slightly higher, tough 3X 250 IU fits most of people.
HMG in PCT does not seems good idea too me. Apart of cycle itself where HCG helps prevent shrinkage (or minimise it) Clomiphene is far superior in every aspect of PCT including testicle size restoration, so HMG/HCG is not neccessary in any part of PCT itself. You may take few weeks longer on PCT if you think there is need. Also, you do need to accept that for a few weeks thing may not be working greatly, its just part of the game.

Back to E2- sweet spot is around 25 ng/dl, 5 +/- is normal variation, some folks are better on lower some on higher end, but a 10 +/- problems with erections start to happen, and libido is affected as well. So if your E2 was a lot out of range than ED is not unexpected.

[tallstraw]

What desensitization are you talking about. There's very few real world evidence to back it up at any dosage used by body builders...doses of like 5000 and frequently used is one thing. But 250, 500 etc e3d or so is not gonna 'desensitize you...However going long periods without it...then trying to use it on cycle, will require doses that are high at first because there will have been desensitization from no use...so I higher dose will be needed, but you'd still lower the frequency with the higher dose...then once it starts working you could lower it back down to an acceptable dose...is this the desensitization you speak of?

[Jelisej]

There is not much evidence on desensitization over internet (tough I dont think its very researched area), but based on my personal experience it does happen, but frankly speaking I'm not a researcher or medical professional- so its just an opinion.

[weekend]

i just felt that because my gonadotropins were so high but my test was the same as it was a long time ago, my testicles are likely somewhat desensitized.

i figured maybe using 1500 iu of hcg a week for a long time causes this to an extent

[Jelisej]

It takes a few blood tests to see where average falls as LH is bit unpredictable, but with one of the guys I worked had common results around 3-4 mlUl/ml, and in recent times its commonly around 6-7, another thing is progesterone gets higher as well (too much LH or HCG results in higher/too high progesterone levels.
I've seen few similar scenarios, maybe insufficient to prove anything and its results are not dramatical but I guess it can potentially build up over time or as results of higher doses so its better to be cautious. Better to be safe than sorry.

[tallstraw]

Better safe than sorry. But someone like Dr Scully who has been around for a long time..researching just this stuff challenges anyone all the time to provide credible evidence. He's in one of the closed FB groups I use, which is cool. 62 yr old Doctor been doing this for a while...he'll poke holes in the things commonly used to argue desensitization. It's normally the dose used that does desensitization. He doesn't argue it isn't a thing just that with the doses we use, it isn't something to fret ovwr. Frequent 1k, 2k,3k,4k,5k doses will desensitize. But lower doses 250 e3d isn't something to worry about...but that lack of lh for periods of time does desensitize the leydig cells( I think) which then REQUIRES a high dose for a few doses to start resensitizing. Which can then be cut back down to lower normal doses.

[longBallLima]

Better safe than sorry. But someone like Dr Scully who has been around for a long time..researching just this stuff challenges anyone all the time to provide credible evidence. He's in one of the closed FB groups I use, which is cool. 62 yr old Doctor been doing this for a while...he'll poke holes in the things commonly used to argue desensitization. It's normally the dose used that does desensitization. He doesn't argue it isn't a thing just that with the doses we use, it isn't something to fret ovwr. Frequent 1k, 2k,3k,4k,5k doses will desensitize. But lower doses 250 e3d isn't something to worry about...but that lack of lh for periods of time does desensitize the leydig cells( I think) which then REQUIRES a high dose for a few doses to start resensitizing. Which can then be cut back down to lower normal doses.

I think I'm in that group and I think Scally very much takes desensitization in consideration, since his protocol uses high doses of HCG. A blast post cycle instead of intra-cycle hcg. I've seen him advise people not to abuse HCG for that very reason, if i'm not mistaken.