Testofen - I think it sucks, personally

[Cdsnuts]

As for fenugreek, I've found these:
Does Fenugreek Boost Testosterone? - Unbiased Supplement Reviews
Fenugreek and Testosterone: Seeds Boost T but Block DHT
Fenugreek: studies show no anabolic effect but effects body composition - Nutrient Journal

No official looking studies, but enough that I've chosen to avoid the stuff.

Just to throw something else out there, aren't you a big fan of coconut oil? Most free fatty acids also inhibit 5ar.
Anti-androgenic activity of fatty acids. - PubMed - NCBI
Inhibition of type 1 and type 2 5alpha-reductase activity by free f... - PubMed - NCBI

It's definitely interesting and a little scary just how many compounds seem to inhibit 5ar.

I've heard that about coconut oil as well, but again, no negative reactions whatsoever.

[entropy]

Me either, actually. I'd never post this over there but I've reqd a few studies that suggest 17-b estradiol is an incredibly potent 5ari. My train of thought lately is prolonged 5ar inhibition = excessive estradiol = persistent 5ar inhibition. It would explain a lot.

[Freepressright]

Me either, actually. I'd never post this over there but I've reqd a few studies that suggest 17-b estradiol is an incredibly potent 5ari. My train of thought lately is prolonged 5ar inhibition = excessive estradiol = persistent 5ar inhibition. It would explain a lot.

I have had non-existent libido several times on fenugreek. But this last time was the worst. It is almost classic symptoms of you guys who were injured by finasteride.

Morning erections, gone. Random erections, never. I had difficulty getting aroused. I just plain had no interest in sex. Maintaining an erection was difficult because I just couldn't keep myself interested. And I felt no desire to self service in the off time.

I started to become more emotional. I lost my alpha feeling. My muscle tissue became softer and I couldn't get a pump worth a shit while working out. Another thing that was really pronounced that I had never felt before was a lack of interest in working out. I would get to the gym and no matter what I did beforehand or how focused I tried to be, I had an insatiable desire to leave early. None of my lifts felt good. I had no mental encouragement. It was fucking awful.

Does any of this sound familiar to you guys?

And in the weeks, or month or more after ceasing, I was still feeling this. I'm finally starting to normalize, but with assistance.

The fucking men's health supplement industry pisses me off. Every fucking product, even god damn multivitamins, have either saw palmetto or pumpkin seed in them under the guise of "prostate support." Are these motherfuckers stupid, because it's elevated estrogen that's causing the epidemic of prostatic hyperplasia, not DHT!

I'm sick and tired of the war on DHT from supplement companies that either don't know the real science or are trying to appeal to common misnomers in marketing.

Fuck Testofen. I will never take this shit ever again.

/End rant

[entropy]

Yep. Still don't get morning wood all that often or randoms ever. Balls shrank considerably (theyre back now thank god) , libido vanished, skin stopped being oilly etc. I'm still dealing with some residual stuff but it seems to cycle in an upward trend.

The worst part for me was the sleep though, when it came to the time I'd go to bed, I'd sleep for maybe one cycle and then I'd wake up and spend 6+ hours tossing and turning before giving up. It didn't actually go away until I started following cds regime.
From what I've read, cds had it much worse than I did though. Nasty, nasty stuff.

I know what you mean about the war on dht, my doc told me "dht has no physiological role in the male body after puberty." Bull.


- Do you mind if I ask what you mean by "With assistance?" I've expanded on cds protocol a few times now based upon a few other guys who managed to recover, my own experimentation etc, I'd love to hear what you're doing to speed up your recovery.

I think we need to rename this stuff "Post 5ari Syndrome", it seems a small portion of men (and women) have horrible experiences with inhibiting the reductase enzyme one way or another. So far I've found men and women suffering the same symptoms from Dutasteride, Finasteride, Saw Palmetto, Accutane, Progestin/Estradiol Based birth control.

[Freepressright]

Yep. Still don't get morning wood all that often or randoms ever. Balls shrank considerably (theyre back now thank god) , libido vanished, skin stopped being oilly etc. I'm still dealing with some residual stuff but it seems to cycle in an upward trend.

The worst part for me was the sleep though, when it came to the time I'd go to bed, I'd sleep for maybe one cycle and then I'd wake up and spend 6+ hours tossing and turning before giving up. It didn't actually go away until I started following cds regime.
From what I've read, cds had it much worse than I did though. Nasty, nasty stuff.

I know what you mean about the war on dht, my doc told me "dht has no physiological role in the male body after puberty." Bull.

That doctor, and thousands of others like him, is completely misinformed about andrology. And that's why it's such a challenge for guys to get quality TRT protocols prescribed. Most physicians are absolutely retarded when it comes to TRT and male hormones.

DHT is the very hormone that makes you male. Your body hair, your deep voice and most of your masculine characteristics all come from DHT.

I've come to the conclusion that if I ever need TRT, I'd be better off self medicating. 250 grams a week of Test E in two doses with the proper dose of AI's and I'd be in better shape than most people getting TRT from doctors who play around with protocols that are completely incorrect.

[Freepressright]

To get halfway normal again I used the following:

-The power of time
-Tocotrienols for LH sensitivity
-90% tribulus @ 500mg 3x daily
-Bulk LongJack (Tongkat Ali) 3x daily
-D3 at 10,000 IUs daily
-N-methyl D-aspartic Acid per label
-Icariin-based product known as Tropinol XP per label
-Caber

This protocol started pulling me out of it. But honest to god, it's one of the worst things I've ever experienced.

[entropy]

Thats incredibly similar to what I'm already doing, it's amazing how much these herbal supps can change things huh? I cycle pretty much all of those things, a different supplement every day:

Tongkat
Macuna
Icariin
Trib
Avena Sativa
Catuaba Bark
Rhodiola
Ashwaganda

Then the daily supplements like 5000iu d3, a crapload of fish oil, a good multi and some magnesium before bed. Waiting on another bottle of Tocosorb atm, it's pretty impossible to find a decent Tocotrienol product over here. Very annoying.

I'm waiting for a bottle of res100 atm and some DAA, thinking I'm going to trial that for a month, then switch back to my cycling for a bit and then -maybe- consider running the bottle of Androhard v3 I've got stashed away, mostly cause it sounds fun as hell more than for the fin sides now but I don't think it can hurt really.

[Cdsnuts]

The fucking men's health supplement industry pisses me off. Every fucking product, even god damn multivitamins, have either saw palmetto or pumpkin seed in them under the guise of "prostate support." Are these motherfuckers stupid, because it's elevated estrogen that's causing the epidemic of prostatic hyperplasia, not DHT!

I'm sick and tired of the war on DHT from supplement companies that either don't know the real science or are trying to appeal to common misnomers in marketing.

/End rant

It always amazes me that people don't understand this simple point. How did it become "known" that DHT was causing prostate problems? This shit is totally backwards.

Which testofen product did you use?

[tallstraw]

"The power of time"





...lulz

[Cdsnuts]

"The power of time"





...lulz

Don't under estimate this. It's a major component of healing.