Testofen - I think it sucks, personally

[Freepressright]

I've really come to hate Testofen.

I have used it probably close to 10 times over the last six or seven years. Gencor commissioned a study that became the basis for lauding it for improvements to free T levels. That may be, but the one thing I've found the last four times I've used it is that it shuts down my sex drive entirely -- to the point that even a PDE-5 inhibitor isn't of much assistance because there's just no damned interest there.

Some say it raises prolactin. That might explain a lot. The loss of libido was so bad from it the last time I used it that I ordered pharma-grade Caber and even it didn't have much of a pronounced effect.

I've also seen some critics say it's estrogenic. I don't know about that. But one thing's for sure, it kills my sex drive as badly as 1-DHEA ever did.

Sad thing is, it leveled out my blood sugar quite effectively. I had zero post-meal crashes on it. But nothing in this world is worth losing my interest in sex. Anyone else ever have this happen?

[Dragoninho]

Kind of funny, but I started to think about that I almost never liked different T-boosters with Testofen in it just for a couple of weeks ago.
Never responded good to any of them, more or less.
Read something, soldaters (can't remember where though) about that fenugreek actually lowers DHT.
I don't like things that lowers DHT!

Would love to try a nice T-booster in my upcoming PCT.

[hossam]

for me after each cycle i have to use a different T booster
then the one i used before as it will not do any effect for me the second time i use it
i tried Fenugreek an also it didn't do anything for me, also it made my
sweat smells the same!

[Strong_Guy]

Interesting. When I've used Testofen (with 5-Methyl-7-Methoxy-Isoflavone in PP's Phyto Test and also as an ingredient in other products) I always have pretty good luck. Granted I would have to run for 8 weeks since it takes about 4 for it to kick in, because I will say for the first half I don't feel much of anything. But after it kicks in it is the closest PH like feeling (for me) out of anything natty I've tried. This last year I ran a natty stack of Phyto Test, AAKG, and creatine and got some great results; strength, pumps, endurance, libido, all were going strong. I'm actually planning this exact same stack between cycles this year, and maybe with some Epic Gainz .

On a side note, I'd really like to try the 5-Methyl-7-Methoxy-Isoflavone solo sometime just to isolate those effects and see how I respond. I'm actually thinking about suggesting it for my wife once she gets back into training hard. Curious in what ways this, and even Testofen, could potentially benefit the ladies.

[weekend]

I really liked phytotest.

[entropy]

Fenugreek is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor IIRC.

Edit - Did a bit of googling, definitely seems to increase T at the expense of DHT. For some of us guys it just isn't worth it, would explain why Caber didn't help much. From what I've found in regards to DHT and the 5ar enzymes is that some of us do relatively well with low DHT whereas some of us get hit really hard in a few different departments.

I'd avoid stuff like Saw Palmetto like the plague if I were you, FPR. I'm still not 100% after my run in with finasteride. I'd bet you're one of the guys who's hyper sensitive to inhibiting the reductase enzyme like myself or Cdsnuts.

[O.N.]

LOL gencor human trial....I laugh at this,

here is the PDF of the trial: testofen-human-trial PDF

Do you see any doctors names attached, even a university name?......lol

The results are bullshit, we can get guys to take res100 that have middle level testosterone and then it is high range say a 50% increase, we have also seen blood work in the low range and then 30 days later it is high range over 300% increase....lol

the fact the study is so similar for all participants it's bullshit. The results should vary a lot from person to person.

This PDF is just as good as me opening up a PDF creator filling it out like they have change the logo to Wicked Supplements and change the product name.

This has ZERO credentials. It's false.

[Freepressright]

Fenugreek is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor IIRC.

Edit - Did a bit of googling, definitely seems to increase T at the expense of DHT. For some of us guys it just isn't worth it, would explain why Caber didn't help much. From what I've found in regards to DHT and the 5ar enzymes is that some of us do relatively well with low DHT whereas some of us get hit really hard in a few different departments.

I'd avoid stuff like Saw Palmetto like the plague if I were you, FPR. I'm still not 100% after my run in with finasteride. I'd bet you're one of the guys who's hyper sensitive to inhibiting the reductase enzyme like myself or Cdsnuts.

This makes a LOT of sense. I was not aware of its impact upon DHT levels, but now that you mention it, it all fits.

When I was taking it, and in the weeks or more that followed, I couldn't get jack shit for a pump working out. Normally I can get decent pumps without a preworkout or vasodilator, but not after this stuff.

[Cdsnuts]

Fenugreek is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor IIRC.

Edit - Did a bit of googling, definitely seems to increase T at the expense of DHT. For some of us guys it just isn't worth it, would explain why Caber didn't help much. From what I've found in regards to DHT and the 5ar enzymes is that some of us do relatively well with low DHT whereas some of us get hit really hard in a few different departments.

I'd avoid stuff like Saw Palmetto like the plague if I were you, FPR. I'm still not 100% after my run in with finasteride. I'd bet you're one of the guys who's hyper sensitive to inhibiting the reductase enzyme like myself or Cdsnuts.

Can you provide sources for this? I've always used and gotten great results from Phyto-test, which is the only fenugreek product I've ever used. I still have two bottles left that I was planning on running for my natty winter cycle coming up in a month or so. I always ran/run it with Sustain alpha/Res100 along with toco and endoamp. That was always my PCT of choice including D-aspartic acid as well. Sometimes depending on the cycle before hand I would actually feel better on the PCT.

Perhaps there is another mechanism at play here other then 5ar? I say this because if my 5ar is being inhibited, I start getting anxiety pretty quickly. I've never had that with Phytotest.

[entropy]

Can you provide sources for this? I've always used and gotten great results from Phyto-test, which is the only fenugreek product I've ever used. I still have two bottles left that I was planning on running for my natty winter cycle coming up in a month or so. I always ran/run it with Sustain alpha/Res100 along with toco and endoamp. That was always my PCT of choice including D-aspartic acid as well. Sometimes depending on the cycle before hand I would actually feel better on the PCT.

Perhaps there is another mechanism at play here other then 5ar? I say this because if my 5ar is being inhibited, I start getting anxiety pretty quickly. I've never had that with Phytotest.

As for fenugreek, I've found these:
Does Fenugreek Boost Testosterone? - Unbiased Supplement Reviews
Fenugreek and Testosterone: Seeds Boost T but Block DHT
Fenugreek: studies show no anabolic effect but effects body composition - Nutrient Journal

No official looking studies, but enough that I've chosen to avoid the stuff.

Just to throw something else out there, aren't you a big fan of coconut oil? Most free fatty acids also inhibit 5ar.
Anti-androgenic activity of fatty acids. - PubMed - NCBI
Inhibition of type 1 and type 2 5alpha-reductase activity by free f... - PubMed - NCBI

It's definitely interesting and a little scary just how many compounds seem to inhibit 5ar.