SHBG questions

[English]

Yeah i plan to research the fuck out of anything i put in my body, DIM is just a possibility, but i like to have a plan. I did read the same studies on the cancer cells. I was frustrated that it is not clear whether they go for just cancer cells or for the DHT receptors outside of it.
Interestingly, there is a similar study using pomegranate extract against prostate cancer cells, in which the some compound from the juice is said to do the exact same thing - ie bind to the DHT receptor. Just another reason why i am a bit wary of many of natures natural anti E compounds, because many of them are said to be, or could well be powerful anti DHT. (i will just throw in here the fact that the main active anti aging compounds in red wine/ grape skins / res100, are also active compounds in pomegranate juice - just sayin)
All of it is confusing as fuck, and given all these studies tend to be very blinkered, the reality is never clear.

[Cdsnuts]

It's a reductase inhibitor according to the studies I've read.

Effects of sex steroids on skin 5 alpha-reductase activity in vitro. - PubMed - NCBI
[Effect of estradiol on 5 alpha-reductase activity in osteoblast-li... - PubMed - NCBI

I'd be a little wary of DIM, English. I've read a few studies that suggest it binds to the same receptors DHT does, the studies I found were only in prostate cancer cells however.

5ar inhibitor....makes sense. I've never heard that before.

[Jelisej]

Yeah i plan to research the fuck out of anything i put in my body, DIM is just a possibility, but i like to have a plan. I did read the same studies on the cancer cells. I was frustrated that it is not clear whether they go for just cancer cells or for the DHT receptors outside of it.
Interestingly, there is a similar study using pomegranate extract against prostate cancer cells, in which the some compound from the juice is said to do the exact same thing - ie bind to the DHT receptor. Just another reason why i am a bit wary of many of natures natural anti E compounds, because many of them are said to be, or could well be powerful anti DHT. (i will just throw in here the fact that the main active anti aging compounds in red wine/ grape skins / res100, are also active compounds in pomegranate juice - just sayin)
All of it is confusing as fuck, and given all these studies tend to be very blinkered, the reality is never clear.

I think you're going to deep into studies, you only need to improve lifestyle (less alcohol, look after liver) and in the first few weeks lower E2 a bit, now if after that your SHBG is not going down, or situation is not improved you need to check other possible underlying causes, or what is causing possible high aromatisation or why you possible have low metabolic rate (why your body cannot sustain higher test. level)

DHT does not neccessary lower E2- typically older males have lower testosterone levels than in younger days but higher DHT and E2 levels.

Eventually if things are not improved you will have to do extensive bloodworks, and then take it from there.
And you need to include not just sex hormones but thyroid, adrenal hormones as well, and vit d, insulin and glucose levels etc...
Try not to stress yourself as any kind of stress in long term can ruin your endocrine system.

[Cdsnuts]

I think you're going to deep into studies, you only need to improve lifestyle (less alcohol, look after liver) and in the first few weeks lower E2 a bit, now if after that your SHBG is not going down, or situation is not improved you need to check other possible underlying causes, or what is causing possible high aromatisation or why you possible have low metabolic rate (why your body cannot sustain higher test. level)

DHT does not neccessary lower E2- typically older males have lower testosterone levels than in younger days but higher DHT and E2 levels.

Eventually if things are not improved you will have to do extensive bloodworks, and then take it from there.
And you need to include not just sex hormones but thyroid, adrenal hormones as well, and vit d, insulin and glucose levels etc...
Try not to stress yourself as any kind of stress in long term can ruin your endocrine system.

J...unfortunately it's just not that easy for these guys post finasteride. Having gone through what they are now, you have to actively nudge your system in a consistent way over time towards the correct equilibrium. It doesn't happen on it's own. This is evidenced by the thousands of guys who have done nothing and have stayed basically castrated for ten or more years.

[Jelisej]

J...unfortunately it's just not that easy for these guys post finasteride. Having gone through what they are now, you have to actively nudge your system in a consistent way over time towards the correct equilibrium. It doesn't happen on it's own. This is evidenced by the thousands of guys who have done nothing and have stayed basically castrated for ten or more years.

Well, he did not say that he used finasteride, or maybe I missed it, but in that case it all puts in different perspective, even tough I would still work with basics first (tunning hormones), even with fina/propecia sufferers it has shown benefits. After all testosterone can mimic DHT and vice versa.

[entropy]

J...unfortunately it's just not that easy for these guys post finasteride. Having gone through what they are now, you have to actively nudge your system in a consistent way over time towards the correct equilibrium. It doesn't happen on it's own. This is evidenced by the thousands of guys who have done nothing and have stayed basically castrated for ten or more years.

Yeah. And the bloodwork shows nothing of value a lot of the time. We still don't really know what the problem is exactly, its very frustrating and painful to go through, very similar to a rollercoaster in peaks and troughs.

Fortunately with cds help and the experience of a few other guys, we've got a rough idea of what we can so to fix the situation. Personally I've improved dramatically in the space of a few months due to cds regime and a few other things ive added to it from the experience of other guys but I've still got a ways to go to get back to normal.

The common issue is that testosterone replacement therapy only causes temporary or no improvements. In fact, any "extreme" treatment methods seem to cause a brief improvement followed by the body regressing to this new "default".

You really wouldn't believe it though, Jel.

Whilst we're "finasterided" we just don't respond like normal people, things happen to us that aren't considered medically possible even.

Unfortunately, the path to healing ourselves is a long, difficult and hard one. But so damned worth it eventually.

Edit - you're right, Jel. In englishes first post he just said "adverse drug reaction".

Another edit: the brighter fin guys always find their way here, some of the dumber ones too. I'm considering a write up of everything I've done along the way, i'd be prepared to do the same with english if he emails me his details and condense down cds posts on the other forum. Just so there's a thread to point people towards when they show up.

[English]

I did repeatedly refer to "post fin" - as in post finasteride - but i guess that is not going to mean much to people outside of PH. I am moving on and tend to use the term - adverse drug reaction - as to be fair, it is not just post fin guys that suffer the type of symptoms we do, there are loads of adverse drug reactions that lead to fairly similar states, and it is a more neutral, less frightening term than PFS.
Anyway, it is not so bad once the hysteria is removed and you pull yourself together (sadly though some never do)
Entropy demonstates that it does not have to be so bad even in the opening months as he is one of the few to be calm really early on. Personally i was in a state of hysteria for at least 6 months and i only realise how much so now that i am relatively calm about it all.

Entropy: I would certainly be up for helping guys from PH and elsewhere get on the right track, but not until i am healed completely. Aside from the fact that i am my no. 1 priority right now, we just don't have the power to fully influence until we are fully healed. Just look at CD who is a god on PH. Anyone not healed is just a guy with a theory for everyone to shoot down, and that is one big reason why i am here now - i tried helping others on PH and i got rained on with PM's and e mails, many of which fairly abusive, only a few of which from guys committed to helping themselves and being helped.
Definitely once we are over the line though. I've thought about this a fair bit and i think implementing a system where each recoverer must mentor 2 sufferers would create the chain reaction needed, and to recover from this it really helps to have the support of a recoverer. This system would allow us to write the plan, mentor 2 guys each, then get the fuck on with our lives away from all this shite, knowing we have done our bit.
That stuff is definitely for the future though, for now i only truly give a fuck about my own recovery, in order that i can then be the best Dad/Husband possible and then be in a position to help others.

[English]

Jel, I have done a couple of extensive blood panels, everything came out great, apart from white blood cell count which was borderline low, but luckily i know i have always had a low WBC, even when i was feeling top of the world (part of a previous mandatory health screening panel my company ran tests and they came out virtually identical)
TSH was 1.06 and 5 months later 0.66 which is ideal
Cortisol 24 hour saliver test showed the perfect downward curve and all in range, albeit slightly high in range (to be fair i was shitting myself at the time)
lipids good, blood counts good, iron etc. basically both times i had full panels done i came out looking very healthy, all with exception to T, E, SHBG which we've already covered in depth.
I would normally post the full results in the normal way, but it is frankly pointless given that my last full panel was nearly a year ago.
Loads of people have recovered from this, it just requires that you stay calm and live life, eat and exercise correctly, ensure your hormones are optimised (however you achieve that) and the rest appears to be time, sometimes lots of it.
In my case, i now just need continuing support to keep hormones optimised as i am nailing the rest, so thanks again to all for the insights, keep 'em coming.

[weekend]

What happens with a post finasteride guy when they take a large amount of aas, like tren mast test stacked at a high dose?

- - - Updated - - -

I ask because I haven't seen anyone try it. Tren seems like it may cause the mental effects everyone with post fin syndrome is looking for. Yes it will shut down the system... But after maybe this will jumpstart?

[entropy]

What happens with a post finasteride guy when they take a large amount of aas, like tren mast test stacked at a high dose?

- - - Updated - - -

I ask because I haven't seen anyone try it. Tren seems like it may cause the mental effects everyone with post fin syndrome is looking for. Yes it will shut down the system... But after maybe this will jumpstart?

No idea about tren but I know of one guy who got his test pumped up into the 2000's with a doc and the only response he got was a bad temper. The same guy managed to get himself into a much better state doing what we do. I think he's now on low dose trt, andractim and solid diet and exercise and feeling pretty good. Gentle nudges seem to work much better in the long run for some reason, maybe a receptor issue? Who knows.