SHBG questions

[English]

I have been following this thread and I have had the same adverse reaction to the same type of drug you guys have had. There is tons of useful information in this thread. I have learned more in two weeks from this website than I have learned in two years from PH and from other websites. This is BY FAR the best website for these types of issues. It's clear that the best of the best in Men's health and in Hormones end up here. I hope you guys continue to post here so I can continue to follow your progress.


Entropy
How is your andro hard cycle going?
You mentioned you where on and off the poison for seven years. Did most of your issues develop "over night" in the form of a crash or did they they come on in a more gradual way which eventually caused you to stop? Sounds like you have made crazy progress for just being six months off which is awesome. I have been going through most of your posts, the only thing I can't find is if you fasted or not?

English
How is your alpha hard cycle going?
I believe I was reading that you are about two weeks in?
Other than the epi andro is this your only other attempt at cycling DHT prohormones?
Your concerns with estrogen are interesting. If I am understanding your concerns correctly you are being extra cautious about not lowering your estrogen to much.

This seems like a good thing to watch. At one point during my two and a half year clomid restart my endo and I moved my estrogen levels down a little to low with armidex and I got worse. I like the idea of your very scientific approach by testing your blood as you continue through this process, in between cycles ect....


Strykers
How long have you been on clomid?
Your LH results that you posted look low so I don't see why clomid can be a bad idea.
Is your doctor going to wean you off of clomid slowly? This is one of the biggest factors involved in my own clomid restart
That I contribute to why it was successful in the long term. Are you going to fast eventually? I did my first one a little over two week ago. It was only a seven day juice fast but It has allowed me to reacquaint myself with food which has provided me with the discipline and confidence needed to eat a paleo diet. I look forward to your updates.

Hi 5!

First up, please change your screenname for fucks sake, i don't want to be seeing that every time i log on, and it is important what you read and take into the subconscious etc. It will be better for you too as every time you use it or read it you are re-inforcing that you are a victim. This mental stuff is more important than all the clomid and DHT in the world if you want to recover.
In answer to your queries, regards DHT i've only done epi for a few days and hated it, it made me very fatigued. I just stopped Alpha Hard after about 3 weeks as i only wanted to do a mini cycle, primarily because putting stuff down me that i know is suppressive stresses me out. It made me mentally sharper, but i have pretty much healed so not much to report elsewhere.
IMO you shouldn't dwell on the use of DHT derivitives, they formed one part of cd's recovery and none of mine, nor entropy's. I am using them as i wish to optimise and get miles away from the condition, whether they will help with that i don't know, but i am putting my foot in the water, cautiously.
Regards E, yes you mustn't get too low for too long. E is as important as T, if not more important for normal bodily functions.
I personally would not use clomid, i came close though and researched the fuck out of it. One of the isomers is both toxic and Estrogenic. It is far easier to get your T up using exercise, diet, and either natural or low dose pharma AI. The simple reason why some sufferers HPTA is compromised in the first place is massive and prolonged stress. You need to attack the route cause of HPTA shut down - stress, then you need time and consistency of good lifestyle and mental awareness to defeat the unknown post fin issue.

[5 alpha victim]

It's not clear to me what you're asking.

In your original protocol you mentioned cycling the T boosting herbs WITH pct and after pct as well. In other words (If I understood the protocol correctly) the steps are as follows:

1) DHT prohormone
2) PCT with rotating T boosting herbs
3) rotating T boosting herbs

After reading through most of this forum it was not clear to me if the guys following your protocol are rotating the T boosting herbs with their PCT or if they are waiting until AFTER their PCT to begin the rotation of the herbs.

I am just curious as I have studied your protocol and wish to keep up.

Thanks man.
Happy Easter

[5 alpha victim]

regards DHT i've only done epi for a few days and hated it, it made me very fatigued. I just stopped Alpha Hard after about 3 weeks as i only wanted to do a mini cycle, primarily because putting stuff down me that i know is suppressive stresses me out.

IMO you shouldn't dwell on the use of DHT derivitives, they formed one part of cd's recovery and none of mine, nor entropy's.

English
That's the second complaint I got about this screen name. I made the name because its my username on other forums and I can promise I did that with no bad intentions. I just tried changing it with no luck. I'm going to try again and if I have to message the forum admin to change it I will. This goes along with what you are saying about the mental aspect of this and I understand and agree with what you are saying.

Your concerns over the fear of getting shut down are completly understandable. You have made progress through hard work and dedication and you do not want to go backwards. It's a mind trap trying to understand why cycling DHT prohormones can help you but at the same taking them has the potential to hurt you. You answered the question and told me exactly what I was looking to know. The biggest thing I'm looking into right now is how necessary and important the DHT prohormones are to recovery. Of course this is important to me as I would perfer not to mess with them for the same reason you perfer to not want to mess with them.

You have made it clear that you do not feel the use of your Epi andro for a few days or your recent 3 week cycle of alpha hard has had major influences in your progress. That is very helpful . Thank you

Hopefully entropy can throw his 2 cents in on this about how much influence exactly does he feel DHT prohormones have had with his recovery.

[English]

regards DHT i've only done epi for a few days and hated it, it made me very fatigued. I just stopped Alpha Hard after about 3 weeks as i only wanted to do a mini cycle, primarily because putting stuff down me that i know is suppressive stresses me out.

IMO you shouldn't dwell on the use of DHT derivitives, they formed one part of cd's recovery and none of mine, nor entropy's.

English
That's the second complaint I got about this screen name. I made the name because its my username on other forums and I can promise I did that with no bad intentions. I just tried changing it with no luck. I'm going to try again and if I have to message the forum admin to change it I will. This goes along with what you are saying about the mental aspect of this and I understand and agree with what you are saying.

Your concerns over the fear of getting shut down are completly understandable. You have made progress through hard work and dedication and you do not want to go backwards. It's a mind trap trying to understand why cycling DHT prohormones can help you but at the same taking them has the potential to hurt you. You answered the question and told me exactly what I was looking to know. The biggest thing I'm looking into right now is how necessary and important the DHT prohormones are to recovery. Of course this is important to me as I would perfer not to mess with them for the same reason you perfer to not want to mess with them.

You have made it clear that you do not feel the use of your Epi andro for a few days or your recent 3 week cycle of alpha hard has had major influences in your progress. That is very helpful . Thank you

Hopefully entropy can throw his 2 cents in on this about how much influence exactly does he feel DHT prohormones have had with his recovery.

Good news regards screenname, because if a whole load of people from PH come on here with their negative screen names and victim mentalities, then i will disappear and i know that Entropy and CD share the same thoughts on it. You do not seem to share the victim mentality though, so yeah, change the screenname and change every other thing that you have unwittingly done that labels you as such on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. The recovery game is no different to a game of pro-sport, and as the guy who led the most successful olympic cycling squad in the history of sport said (i refer to the british team of course!): "It is about the aggregation of marginal gains"
Of course that means you have to get the main parts in place too, but little stuff like screen names and how you refer to yourself in your head, whether you look up or down and stand tall in the street - all these things are a third of one percent, and they add up, yet they are easy to change.

I can certainly tell you that Entropy only started his first AH V3 cycle about the same time as me (3 or 4 weeks ago) and i know he is enjoying being on them, so they are positively affecting him - at least whilst on them - however he was already referring to himself as functioning well and being out of the woods etc. before taking them.
Personally i believe that much of the value in using them is as tool, or another stage no different to finding another big thing to do that you believe in. For me i would never have recovered without lots of mini stages, i always think: OK so that is not perfect, but that's OK because next month i'm doing this or that, and there's a good chance that doing that will help or make it better, and that thought allows me to not dwell on whatever symptom i experienced.
I still have a few things that are improving all the time but are still not perfect yet simply because skin and sensitivity issues take time to run through, and i know it is important not to dwell on these things or else i could take myself backwards, so i continue to do everything that got me here, i always have something new that i am doing the month after. This is why i will no doubt cycle with AH again in the future, and although i believe the value is in "belief" more than anything, the reason i retain belief in the DHT derivatives is because i know they might well be responsible for the final 10% / optimising in a shorter time frame, also because i respect CD and Entropy and their decision making processes and they rate them. Sometimes you have to believe based on others as much as yourself, but of course in these instances you must choose those you respect wisely.
To summarise, i know for a fact that you don't need the DHT derivatives to recover, however they may help speed up the process, and if you believe in them then they probably will - however, do not take them unless testing shows your HPTA axis is in good order (or, like CD did, you are already feeling 70% recovered in which case you don't need bloods as you can't feel that well with a broken HPTA) , doing otherwise is in my opinion foolhardy.

[5 alpha victim]

"Good news regards screenname, because if a whole load of people from PH come on here with their negative screen names and victim mentalities, then i will disappear and i know that Entropy and CD share the same thoughts on it."

I'm trying to change the screen name. It does not look like the settings give me the option. I will need to send a message to the administrator to request the change. I would not worry about a bunch of the PH guys coming over here. They are not looking for a place to talk to people with knowledge for a hobby and to better themselves.

"The reason i retain belief in the DHT derivatives is because i know they might well be responsible for the final 10% / optimising in a shorter time frame, also because i respect CD and Entropy and their decision making processes and they rate them".

It's good to know that IF I decided to use the DHT derivatives sooner than later that maybe the usage could speed things up. Its awesome that you have people like CD and Entropy that you can trust and rely on when making decisions about going left or right. In this type of a situation with stakes this high having people like these guys advising you is huge. People like myself looking in from the outside understand how important that is and truly understand how much that means.

" However do not take them unless testing shows your HPTA axis is in good order (or, like CD did, you are already feeling 70% recovered"

"Entropy was already referring to himself as functioning well and being out of the woods etc. before taking them".

My HPTA is in good shape. Even though Clomid has its disadvantages I still believe it did recover my HPTA. It's been over a year now and I have had several blood readings that indicate Total Testosterone levels in the mid 700's. For a thirty year old these are certainly normal. My SHBG, estrogen and free T levels are all perfect as well. My LH is normal but my FSH remains a little on the low side.

So it's clear that in CD'S , Entropy's and in your case you guys where all at about 70 percent recovered before increasing 5 Alpha Reductase activity via cycling DHT pro hormones. That is very important information. You guys are about it for guys that have been diligent enough to follow CD's protocol so I really am happy that I have been lucky enough to talk to you guys. And please if my analysis regarding my 70 percent conclusion is wrong please correct me.

With that said Its becoming clear to me that the majority of the recovery that takes place during this protocol is from fasting (cleansing), cycling Herbs to increase your Natty T levels (and to get other dietary benefits from them) and by eating a strict Paleo diet with a proper/reasonable gym routine.

English, so we have discussed in detail your usage with DHT prohormones as they relate to your recovery. How about your experience with fasting and cycling the herbs? How have these elements of the program contributed to your progress?

[English]

"Good news regards screenname, because if a whole load of people from PH come on here with their negative screen names and victim mentalities, then i will disappear and i know that Entropy and CD share the same thoughts on it."

I'm trying to change the screen name. It does not look like the settings give me the option. I will need to send a message to the administrator to request the change. I would not worry about a bunch of the PH guys coming over here. They are not looking for a place to talk to people with knowledge for a hobby and to better themselves.

"The reason i retain belief in the DHT derivatives is because i know they might well be responsible for the final 10% / optimising in a shorter time frame, also because i respect CD and Entropy and their decision making processes and they rate them".

It's good to know that IF I decided to use the DHT derivatives sooner than later that maybe the usage could speed things up. Its awesome that you have people like CD and Entropy that you can trust and rely on when making decisions about going left or right. In this type of a situation with stakes this high having people like these guys advising you is huge. People like myself looking in from the outside understand how important that is and truly understand how much that means.

" However do not take them unless testing shows your HPTA axis is in good order (or, like CD did, you are already feeling 70% recovered"

"Entropy was already referring to himself as functioning well and being out of the woods etc. before taking them".

My HPTA is in good shape. Even though Clomid has its disadvantages I still believe it did recover my HPTA. It's been over a year now and I have had several blood readings that indicate Total Testosterone levels in the mid 700's. For a thirty year old these are certainly normal. My SHBG, estrogen and free T levels are all perfect as well. My LH is normal but my FSH remains a little on the low side.

So it's clear that in CD'S , Entropy's and in your case you guys where all at about 70 percent recovered before increasing 5 Alpha Reductase activity via cycling DHT pro hormones. That is very important information. You guys are about it for guys that have been diligent enough to follow CD's protocol so I really am happy that I have been lucky enough to talk to you guys. And please if my analysis regarding my 70 percent conclusion is wrong please correct me.

With that said Its becoming clear to me that the majority of the recovery that takes place during this protocol is from fasting (cleansing), cycling Herbs to increase your Natty T levels (and to get other dietary benefits from them) and by eating a strict Paleo diet with a proper/reasonable gym routine.

English, so we have discussed in detail your usage with DHT prohormones as they relate to your recovery. How about your experience with fasting and cycling the herbs? How have these elements of the program contributed to your progress?

I've just responded to your post on the other thread. Dude, i was recovered before DHT derivatives and all but recovered before i ever spoke with CD. Recovery comes from within - read my other reply.
Your bloods look great, is that without clomid now? That being the case you need time and mental healing. Recovery will come.

[English]

In your original protocol you mentioned cycling the T boosting herbs WITH pct and after pct as well. In other words (If I understood the protocol correctly) the steps are as follows:

1) DHT prohormone
2) PCT with rotating T boosting herbs
3) rotating T boosting herbs

After reading through most of this forum it was not clear to me if the guys following your protocol are rotating the T boosting herbs with their PCT or if they are waiting until AFTER their PCT to begin the rotation of the herbs.

I am just curious as I have studied your protocol and wish to keep up.

Thanks man.
Happy Easter

Just to be clear, even though i find i have said this repeatedly - I have never followed CD's protocol. I followed a recovery plan based on all the impressive self induced recoveries i found on both PH and the wider web. CD's happened to embody all the main elements, however other stuff that CD did was not for me. I did loads different to CD, and many guys that have recovered have also done loads different to CD and different to me also. Recovery has to be to a certain extent individual, although the cornerstones are fixed IMO.
I used to read CD's and Chi's words for inspiration during the bad times, because they both inspire, but i follow no-one blindly, and nor should anyone. You need self belief and you cannot obtain that if you base everything on someone else.

[English]

Hi guys, i am getting too many PM's and being asked too much about this condition now to be enjoying my time here, and i must protect myself given that i have only just recovered. Although i feel for everyone suffering, pretty much everything i have done is already out there.
I set great store on the mental aspect, and being faced with lists of symptoms of others or how they recovered and crashed etc most days can only put me in jeopardy, it is the reason i left PH and came here.
You can use my thread by all means, but i will not be reading or replying to it as will be taking a break from this for the foreseeable.
Please do not PM me, i will not reply.

[strykers12]

take a break english. you and others sure deserve one

[ToniBR]

Congratulations, English! I also created an account here hoping to find some light. I've been living in a very dark moment of my life, but I'm taking measures. Hopefully one day I'll be posting a recovery aswell. Be fine, buddy