Estrogen questions

[English]

Thanks to advice from clever chaps here on swole, i am feeling much better after controlling Estrogen which lowered my SHBG, and i now find myself asking all sorts of questions on Estrogen that i have not seen the answers to on the net.

So:

1- Too low E can result in bad cardio outcomes, as well as bone health, libido, muscle issues, etc. and the aromatase enzyme tends to be found in fat right? So can someone tell me how super skinny guys at age 18 with ultra low body fat are healthier with more energy than at any other time in life, even though their E must be very low indeed right? - same thing for endurance runners with super low fat percentage - how do they not have stress fractures all the time?

2- Regards the above mentioned poor outcomes related to low E: these outcomes appear common knowledge now on the web in general. Is it that the studies and outcomes related to low E are because people with low E often also have low T too, which usually means a relatively high SHBG, so basically piss poor androgen levels, resulting in fatigue, poor diet and exercise etc. ultimately equating to poor outcome. So a cause and effect issue with the stats?

3- I am at risk of answering my own questions here, but logically i would guess that super fit or young guys with low fat percentage and thus low E are not at risk from the standard poor outcomes listed all over the web because they also have high T and low SHBG, so overral they have high free androgen, even if their free E is still very low. Maybe these guys have developed more densely populated E receptors too. Or is it that E2 is higher as a proportion of the 3 E's and E2 does the bulk of the work?

Anyone know why?

[O.N.]

Balance is key to any hormone working together, you never want to overly suppress estrogen, have a read here: Ideal Estrogen Level

Everyone is different and there can be many reasons why someone has, high/low estrogen along with high/low testosterone....most commonly the case is high estrogen with low testosterone.

Answer to your 3rd question is that healthy young males will still fall into the category of healthy estrogen.....their estrogen will not be super low.....it will be within range and low if they are healthy.

[English]

Balance is key to any hormone working together, you never want to overly suppress estrogen, have a read here: Ideal Estrogen Level

Everyone is different and there can be many reasons why someone has, high/low estrogen along with high/low testosterone....most commonly the case is high estrogen with low testosterone.

Answer to your 3rd question is that healthy young males will still fall into the category of healthy estrogen.....their estrogen will not be super low.....it will be within range and low if they are healthy.

Oh OK, i've been assuming that super skinny dudes etc. would be way low on E, so just low in range then, that makes sense and makes all of my questions superfluous! I wish i hadn't started this now!

[Jelisej]

Estrogen levels depend a lot of level of aromatisation- and level of aromatisation depends on balance on other hormones, if cortisol level is low there will be lot of aromatisation if cortisol levels are high there will be lot of aromatisation. inadequate levels of thyroid hormones cause high aromatisation, liver clears off excessive estrogen and if liver function is impaired levels of estrogen will rise, for example after drinking session estrogen is going to raise because livers pririty is detoxification. people with low estrogen after drinking feel increased libido while those with high tend to feel worse. There are also xenoestrogens (for cause by plastic- if one drinks sparkling water from plastic bottle it will raise xenoestrogens which activate estrogen receptors and AI dont lower xenoestrogens).
As for low estrogen as you said if one has low testosteron production and low levels of LH he will have low levels of estrogen, or sometimes testosterone does not metabolise into other hormones for other reasons like low level of aromatase.

[English]

Estrogen levels depend a lot of level of aromatisation- and level of aromatisation depends on balance on other hormones, if cortisol level is low there will be lot of aromatisation if cortisol levels are high there will be lot of aromatisation. inadequate levels of thyroid hormones cause high aromatisation, liver clears off excessive estrogen and if liver function is impaired levels of estrogen will rise, for example after drinking session estrogen is going to raise because livers pririty is detoxification. people with low estrogen after drinking feel increased libido while those with high tend to feel worse. There are also xenoestrogens (for cause by plastic- if one drinks sparkling water from plastic bottle it will raise xenoestrogens which activate estrogen receptors and AI dont lower xenoestrogens).
As for low estrogen as you said if one has low testosteron production and low levels of LH he will have low levels of estrogen, or sometimes testosterone does not metabolise into other hormones for other reasons like low level of aromatase.

That is interestesting, i never considered or realised that aromatase was increased or lowered by cortisol. Regards what you said about that, was there a typo or or you saying that both high and low cortisol results in high aromatase?

The more i hear about the endless (essentially balancing) effects of other hormones the more i realise one can never fully control the situation with supplementation as one thing will always affect another. I suppose the body itself is the only one truly qualified to sort out the correct balance, and the body only seems to work properly when relaxed, well fed and exercised.

[Jelisej]

It was not typo- and your conclusion is right one- it is overall balalnce and body being in good state that prevents problem.
Basically whole body should be kept in some sort of equillibrium- as you said body needs both exercise an rest, needs food but constant overfeeding or poor diet will lead to problems- one of the first hormones to suffer from poor diet is Leptin and this hormone is quite improtant as after leptin is skewed one is already on downhill and pre-diabetic, in theory restoring good leptin resistance should retorn body to good hormonal balance but I dont know anyone who was really succesful in this.
As for testosterone deficiency- again in theory once underlying health issues are fixed it should sort itself out; except if testicles are non functional or pituary (head injury or something else).

[English]

Thanks for that Jel, Can i check with you a theory of mine of how my HPTA effectively reacts to estrogens in the presence of lessening stress levels, borne out by my experience of the last 16 months + blood tests.
Is it the case that the HPTA can tolerate more estrogen as stress declines and still kick out LH? Because for the first year when i was scared out of my whits, i had undetectable E yet LH and T were very low.
As stress subsided (following much work on my mind) both E and T rose, consistently so.
This is counter intuitive given that rising E should stop the HPTA from signalling LH production.
So i take it that is evidence of the fact that a relaxed mind, and good conditions in diet and exercise essentially allow the HPTA to tolerate higher E without shutting down yes?

[Jelisej]

As for estrogen levels- I think E2 is the one that needs to be monitored, E1 and 3 are usually not issue, and I agree with what O.N's study says, as from my own research/experience ideally is at 25, 5+/- is good, more than that issues happen and mortality rate is mulitplied.
As for estrogen tolerance, not really sure some can tolerate bit higher some not, people with higher testosterone levels can be ok with bit higher E2, people with higher thyroid hormone levels can tolerate more- while people with high E2 and low thyroid hormones get lot of sides, including panick attacks.

usually when E2 goes up LH cuts off, but not in all people but their testosterone levels dont really go high, even on TRT some people have measurable LH levels; so probably LH conversion is the key issue here which depends on testicles functionality, receptors state and probably some other factors.

[English]

Regards my own E levels, i made a mistake when talking with you on the SHBG questions board (just realised when reading ON's study), as i didn't put the unit of measurement down, which in the UK is in pmol/L. So my E was 36 pmol/L when my T was at about 500 and SHBG 51, which actually made my E slightly low, but still probably quite high given the very low free T available to convert.
However, i didn't start taking AI until a later blood test which was just for T only, which by that time had risen to about 600 (19.9) so i would think E would have risent to 50+pmol/L by that point.
Anyway, that was my mistake however i am glad i used the AI (and continue to) as it broke a deadlock that had took hold with high SHBG and rising further each time T and E increased. As you will recall (post AI) my T jumped to 850 with LH at 4.1 and SHBG falling to 35. So that shows that my sensitivity to LH is good.
I'm down to 2 x 12.5mg aromasin per week now with bloods again on the 16th of this month.
My joints definitely feel dry, poppy and a little achy, so i know i am low on E right now, however i want to get SHBG down in the 20's, before allowing E to rise to normal levels, in the hope that the extra free androgen will keep SHBG to below 35 even when E rises to about 60pmol/L, restoring the old equilibrium.

Regards your comments on Thyroid, my last bloods included TSH and that was 0.66, so that is a good indication. Liver and all other results were good too, so happily, it does look like i just need to keep tinkering with E and T and just carry on with healthy lifestyle. I'll feel alot more relaxed about things when i know my E is more normal though, it is a bit disconcerting to have joints popping and even slight pain in them, but then again, when my T was low i had the same issue anyway - undetectable E for about a year.

So all good, i'll get there. I would appreciate it if you could let me know if my plan sucks by the way, given my mistake with units.

[Jelisej]

I did realise which unit you used, after all we live in same part of the world and in most part of Europe they use different units than USA tough there are plenty of places where they use USA equipement so they use USA measurement.

Your estrogen was high but your SHBG was very high and if it was not your esteogen would be even higher.

You can try as little as 2X 6.25 of aromasin.