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  1. #141
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    Ok guys im a week in and already seeing some improvement, nocturnals have appeared ☝️, just got the pine pollen tincture too. How many servings is it best having per day, off the tincture that is, havent been able to find any literature on this.

    Also im looking at undertaking a dht based cycle but obvs primordial has been shut so whats the next best thing?

    Ive never done a cycle before, im a complete amatuer. I will have to take a pct afterwards, is nolvadex best for this?

    Regards

  2. #142
    Established Member Feedback Score 1 (100%) Grape Ape's Avatar
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    All the info you need is on this forum. Use the search function. We can't continue to spoon feed what has been put out there a million times.

    Epiandro TD, SUP3R-EPI, and R-Andro are your best bet for DHT products.

  3. #143
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pageidol View Post
    Ok guys im a week in and already seeing some improvement, nocturnals have appeared ☝️, just got the pine pollen tincture too. How many servings is it best having per day, off the tincture that is, havent been able to find any literature on this.

    Also im looking at undertaking a dht based cycle but obvs primordial has been shut so whats the next best thing?

    Ive never done a cycle before, im a complete amatuer. I will have to take a pct afterwards, is nolvadex best for this?

    Regards
    Rest assured, if you're already seeing results in a week and a half, you're not that damaged and recovery will come sooner than later.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pageidol View Post
    Ok guys im a week in and already seeing some improvement, nocturnals have appeared ☝️, just got the pine pollen tincture too. How many servings is it best having per day, off the tincture that is, havent been able to find any literature on this.

    Also im looking at undertaking a dht based cycle but obvs primordial has been shut so whats the next best thing?

    Ive never done a cycle before, im a complete amatuer. I will have to take a pct afterwards, is nolvadex best for this?

    Regards
    You should slow the fuck down IMO. You've just took to healthy living and herb cycling and seen huge gains in 10 days right? If that's the case why are you wanting to start cycling PH? This is crazy. Stick with herb cylcing and healthy living for a few months, see where you're at. PHs are there to either assist fully healthy guys feel even better and to bulk up, or to give pfs type people a jolt -if they need it - right now you don't need it and it will only serve to confuse the strong evidence of recovery which you are getting really quickly right now from natty means. Use logic and common sense and time. People who throw every thing at it that they've suddenly found out about end up disappointed and confused. One step at a time.

  5. #145
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    Cheers for reassurance guys and advice. Its funny really because for months ive felt completely nonchalent and numb, and over the past cpl of weeks im feeling all this emotion coming over me and its like the anxiety returning over it all which is the way i used to be. That along with nocturnals.

    Also, something id long forgotten about...oily skin! My skin is getting oily again and im breaking out a little. Haha i can honestly say id give my right arm to be covered in acne!

    I honestly think id have recovered by now. I was talking to my specialist and i was describing everytime i took either clomid, arimidex, i experienced e2 rebounds, most notably water retention, and this took weeks to subside.

    Its a combination i think with me in regards to e2 hpta suppression on top, but im no doctor!

    Thanks

  6. #146
    Established Member Feedback Score 0 Eden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Needinghelp View Post
    @grapeape i already been to the urologist but they only told me there are more people who have this problem with accutane and they can't do much about it. And because accutane is also a 5 ar inhibitor i thought you guys could give me some advice on how to recover.

    What were you taking accutane for? I'm assuming not recalcitrant nodular acne?

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pageidol View Post
    Cheers for reassurance guys and advice. Its funny really because for months ive felt completely nonchalent and numb, and over the past cpl of weeks im feeling all this emotion coming over me and its like the anxiety returning over it all which is the way i used to be. That along with nocturnals.

    Also, something id long forgotten about...oily skin! My skin is getting oily again and im breaking out a little. Haha i can honestly say id give my right arm to be covered in acne!

    I honestly think id have recovered by now. I was talking to my specialist and i was describing everytime i took either clomid, arimidex, i experienced e2 rebounds, most notably water retention, and this took weeks to subside.

    Its a combination i think with me in regards to e2 hpta suppression on top, but im no doctor!

    Thanks
    The most important thing of all with regards recovering IMO, is to stop thinking and obsessing over why it happened, what might be to blame yadayada.... you've got to transition to normal thoughts and get on with normal life, just whilst living healthy and carrying out the required exercise etc.

  8. #148
    SwoleSource Member Feedback Score 0
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    Quote Originally Posted by English View Post
    Personally i think you sound a good guy and you got a hard time that you didn't deserve, it's a very hard place you are coming from and you got some stick mainly because so many others are total pricks. I think there's nothing wrong with not retaining everything after reading a thousand posts from someone, and i think it is understable to want to speak with the person themselves after reading so much. Fact is you don't need to though, and you should also look at others who have recovered to spot the common denominators.
    Thanks English. Means a lot. I have a very much fuck you attitude to this illness. I will fucking beat i!. Been away for a while. Thought I'd update. Looks like after a few months of eating gluten free my sleep has recovered. I know gluten can fuck you up in many ways. This just proves one of them!

    I remember at one stage all I wished for was to be able to sleep, to drift off naturally, to feel naturally tired. To sleep and feel refreshed to some extent. The other sides didn't matter, I just wanted to sleep! So I have to be so incredibly grateful for that. I sleep deeply now and don't wake up to a pin drop like before. Hands and feet have stopped being so cold too which is a massive plus.

    I still wake up tired and exhausted, I still have no spontaneous erections. I do however get nocturnal and morning wood every night usually. It's not great, like full hard, but it's there and that's all that matters right now for me.

    Still eating very healthy, trying to keep active and positive. I enjoy stuff more. Brain fog is still around, less of a fog, more of a mental slowness now? Hard to put down.

    Still very lean, muscular to some extent, lots of new body hair all the time which is surely a good sign. Seem to sweat less than before, sometimes smells very masculine, sometimes no smell.

    With the he fatigue I have I also have this leg ache, it's not really painful cramps. It's just an uncomfortable feeling. Maybe restless legs still.

    I just had a load of tests done a month ago to see a new baseline of where I'm at after stopping gluten. For all of you reading this For the first time I'm celiac. I'm meeting my endo next week To find out. My T was low a few months ago.

    Anyways thanks for all your support.

    This is my year! I can fucking feel it.
    Last edited by Lookingforhelp; 04-15-2016 at 05:46 AM.

  9. #149
    Moderator Feedback Score 0 Cdsnuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookingforhelp View Post
    Thanks English. Means a lot. I have a very much fuck you attitude to this illness. I will fucking beat i!. Been away for a while. Thought I'd update. Looks like after a few months of eating gluten free my sleep has recovered. I know gluten can fuck you up in many ways. This just proves one of them!

    I remember at one stage all I wished for was to be able to sleep, to drift off naturally, to feel naturally tired. To sleep and feel refreshed to some extent. The other sides didn't matter, I just wanted to sleep! So I have to be so incredibly grateful for that. I sleep deeply now and don't wake up to a pin drop like before. Hands and feet have stopped being so cold too which is a massive plus.

    I still wake up tired and exhausted, I still have no spontaneous erections. I do however get nocturnal and morning wood every night usually. It's not great, like full hard, but it's there and that's all that matters right now for me.

    Still eating very healthy, trying to keep active and positive. I enjoy stuff more. Brain fog is still around, less of a fog, more of a mental slowness now? Hard to put down.

    Still very lean, muscular to some extent, lots of new body hair all the time which is surely a good sign. Seem to sweat less than before, sometimes smells very masculine, sometimes no smell.

    With the he fatigue I have I also have this leg ache, it's not really painful cramps. It's just an uncomfortable feeling. Maybe restless legs still.

    I just had a load of tests done a month ago to see a new baseline of where I'm at after stopping gluten. For all of you reading this For the first time I'm celiac. I'm meeting my endo next week To find out. My T was low a few months ago.

    Anyways thanks for all your support.

    This is my year! I can fucking feel it.
    You should think positively on the fact that you're experiencing nocturnal and morning wood. You're not as damaged as some. You're recovery window will be shorter than those that who aren't experiencing them.
    Total Male Optimization "People who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those that are doing it"

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pageidol View Post
    My tincture has arrived! Elvis is in the building

    Im amazed they use fenugreek in all the major so called test boosters! Your the only other guy ive come across to get into trouble off fenugreek.

    Back to the saw palmetto use, id say ive read in all around 50 stories of mens negative experiences on it across different websites and forums. Id say 95% of the time, the man gets issues but then comes off it and recovers within 6 months. This seems to be the recurring theme. However then theres this 5% that seem to be royally fucked and i cant understand why.

    I took sp for 21 days which did harm me and began taking the fenugreek 4 months later as a test booster which really fucked me up.

    I think i didnt recover because i went mad. I started throwing down clomid and all sorts in a mad panic. Even last summer i took arimidex for a week and had full on estrogen rebound afterwards. I think the spike in e2 has been more detrimental in shutting down my hpta.

    Fresspressright in all mate from once you began fenugreek use to full recovery, how long was it?
    I bet you found yourself in some dark moods. This has been the most pscho damaging thing ive ever experienced.

    Are you still on your recovery protocol, ie if you came off your symptons would once again emerge? I say that because im beginning to see some good signs now on these supps but id like to think that once everything is back up and running i can stop the regime and things carry on functioning as per normal.

    Sweet

    Hey man , Your experiences with natural 5AR inhibitors are very similar to mine.

    It is BS that fenugreek is used for boosting natty T. Not that it can't boost natty T but it's misleading as far as the mechanism of action behind why and how it's boosting T that's BS. 5AR inhibitors usually will raise your T at first but while risking completely messing up your endocrine system for the long run.

    I completely agree with your conclusions with everything you said about Saw P. I'm one of the guys that fall in the 5 percent category of having been royally messed up by taking Saw P.

    How you got messed up from taking Saw P for 21 days and later even more messed up from your four months of fenugreek usage almost mirrors my mistakes as well. Actually during my first Saw P mishap I actually took it for 21 days exactly and was "PFS'd". Than about three years later after still being messed up and after having a urologist tell me that all my symptoms where in result of having an enlarged prostate I did another two week run of Saw P. to "shrink my prostate". Stupid I know ... After my second run of Saw P came the insomnia and severe stomach issues. After coming off the Saw P the second time I stayed up for two weeks straight .. Not one min of sleep for two weeks. My insomnia was so bad that hard core sleep meds would not put me out. I actually thought I was going to die blah blah blah ...

    Following the "PFS" protocol for the last two years has cured 80 percent of my insomnia . Eating a close to strict paleo diet for the last two years has helped my digestive issues a lot as well. Not sure if you are having issues with digestion but the magnesium supp is great for this. I constantly find that the more of this protocol I follow the better quality of life I see returning.

    As for us worrying about deciding if to stop taking everything once fully recovered, that's the least of our concerns. The way I look at it why not continue to take vitamins and increase our T to natural health levels even after being completely recovered. But that's a bridge to cross once we their.
    Last edited by 5 alpha victim; 04-23-2016 at 02:54 PM.

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