Torem AND Clomid together - Who has tried this?

[Freepressright]

I've seen talk on this board of folks who have done a Torem/Clomid 60/12.5 ED protocol. Who has done this and do you feel like it was any more beneficial than one or the other, solo. Tell me what you experienced with respect to recovery and libido.

[Mad Mardigan]

I imagine it is about as effective as a nolva/clomid restart. Both are effective. Me, I like Clomid, can't touch Torem. Usually run a 120/25 Ralox Clomid for longer, with other herbals thrown in.

[weekend]

i have done both and had a bunch of friends do it too.

everyone seems to recover very well!

however, i did a second mini pct (25 clomid for 20 days) after my last one because i didn't have good erection quality yet again once coming off the SERMs. also during that pct i over used aromasin, and that definitely contributed to lowered erection quality.

i can't give you a concrete answer on whether it works better than clomid solo but i think its probably better than clomid + nolva.

i felt better on the second pct doing 25 clomid than i ever did on the pct. but i still think the torem helps and i should have used less aromasin (used it till the end)

ive never had estrogen come above 25 in all 7 of my bloodworks, usually its like 10.

i prob feel my best at 20+ though. so thats an issue specific to me. i dont aromatize much when it's my naturally produced test involved.

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i tried torem + TRS for a 11 week androbulk androhard cycle, that was a really good pct.

[tallstraw]

^ yeah it truly was everyone always talked shit about it because it was Otc...but trs+torem always treated me incredibly well, incredibly quickly.

[campcoll88]

I always run clomid for 20 days at 50mg, followed by torem for 20 days at 60mg.

Clomid makes me angry. Torem makes me a little girl. The combo has worked for me every run.

I do this based off some broscience that Clomid is better at raising LH.

[Jelisej]

Tamoxifene and toremifene are actually quite similar, and they produce similar results AFAIK. So in relaity using either in combination with clomiphene should yield simiar result.

Clomiphene is much more superior in effect of receptors sensitation to E2 or in other words clomid has much more significant inhibition of the sensitizing effect of E2 on the GnRH-stimulated release of LH.

I would not go without clomiphene, if it produces side effect lesser dosage is an option.

One downside of cliomiphene and other SERMS as well is that libido is not quite good, or it can be really bad for some folks but that does not mean that person is not recovering-
Libido will be affected for as long as clomiphene is in sysrem and clomiphene has a long half life- which is another reason why high dose of clomid should not be used (higher doses take longer to clear).

Now, as for testboosters for PCT, that is kamikaze style PCT IMHO- altough libido will come a lot, lot faster than when using PCT- dfference is in receptors. Basically- SERM PCT is simple more thourough.
As a matter of fact its very likely that preson witohut PCT will regain its libido before person who has been few months on SERMS, but person who done SERMS will be much beter off.

[Freepressright]

As always J, a super informative post that I can relate to.

I used to run 50mg of Clomid ED and became an emotional jackass with no libido. Backed it down to 25mg ED and had a much better experience.

I am curious from the folks here on the board who have used torem, or the Torem/Clomid combo, how is your libido during PCT?

[Jelisej]

FPR, I think you missed the point- toremifene and tamoxifene is very similar, almost same so experience woud be same, and AFAIK results and experience is the same tough most people use tamoxifen as it is more available, there is plenty of pharma grade tamoxifen around while toremifene is not so common and very often of mixed quality, so in other words your (or someone elses) experience with tamoxifen gives you and idea- so gauge your dosage by previous experience (if you/someone were using 10mg of tamoxifen it translates to 30mg of toremifene, so basically one can start with 12.5 mg a day of clomid with either of 10mg of tamoxifen or 30 mg of toremifene, and then tapper down.

[O.N.]

I really hate SERM's for many many reasons - have a read here: http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/pct-post-cycle-therapy-oct-on-cycle-therapy/196-clomid-and-nolvadex-one-view.html


And also here: http://www.bodybuildingforums.com.au/pct-post-cycle-therapy-oct-on-cycle-therapy/4304-why-you-should-reconsider-using-nolva-and-clomid-in-your-pct.html

[weekend]

resveratrol is a serm.