Is saw palmetto shampoo risky?

[Mad Mardigan]

I really do not think the shampoo would be an issue. I've been using it since I read your thread a while back and not had any issues. On or off cycle.

[Cdsnuts]

I really do not think the shampoo would be an issue. I've been using it since I read your thread a while back and not had any issues. On or off cycle.

It shouldn't be an issue if the SP acts locally rather then systemically.

[entropy]

It shouldn't be an issue if the SP acts locally rather then systemically.

But if it acts locally, it probably isn't the sp causing the regrowth.

[Cdsnuts]

But if it acts locally, it probably isn't the sp causing the regrowth.

Can 5ar not be just inhibited in the scalp topically? I know certain tissues have more or less of the enzyme depending on their function. We both know systemically is absolutely not the way to go.

[entropy]

It can be inhibited locally but its incredibly active all over the body, so I doubt it'd stop dht binding to the receptors in the scalp unless you occupied the receptors with some kinda anti androgen. (Keto, RU, Spiro etc). Personally I don't think its worth the risk really.

[Cdsnuts]

It can be inhibited locally but its incredibly active all over the body, so I doubt it'd stop dht binding to the receptors in the scalp unless you occupied the receptors with some kinda anti androgen. (Keto, RU, Spiro etc). Personally I don't think its worth the risk really.

I was under the impression that DHT dependent tissues got the hormone from 5ar in those tissues. Such that the conversion happened in the actual area in which it was needed. I'm obviously not an endocrinologist, but this is why blocking 5ar systemically is a bad idea. You starve ALL tissues of DHT. Again, I've been out of the loop on this stuff, happily, for the past couple years.

[entropy]

I was under the impression that DHT dependent tissues got the hormone from 5ar in those tissues. Such that the conversion happened in the actual area in which it was needed. I'm obviously not an endocrinologist, but this is why blocking 5ar systemically is a bad idea. You starve ALL tissues of DHT. Again, I've been out of the loop on this stuff, happily, for the past couple years.

I think -some- is, but it circulates in the bloodstream anyway, so it would make it to the scalp regardless. Think shedding from a dht prohormone.

[5 alpha victim]

I was under the impression that DHT dependent tissues got the hormone from 5ar in those tissues. Such that the conversion happened in the actual area in which it was needed. I'm obviously not an endocrinologist, but this is why blocking 5ar systemically is a bad idea. You starve ALL tissues of DHT. Again, I've been out of the loop on this stuff, happily, for the past couple years.

The way I look at it/understand the biological process is the same as your logic:

What's making the hair fall out of the scalp is the actualy conversion of T-DHT IN THE SCALP. In other words the 5AR type 2 enzymes in the scalp that are doing the actual conversion/production of DHT in the scalp is what's damaging the hair follicles and making the hair fall out. The actual DHT that's now in your blood stream after the conversion is completed IS NOT making your hair fall out.

Same thing with the prostate IF DHT TRULY has any involvement in prostate enlargement (which is up for debate to say the lest) it's not the end result of DHT being their now in your blood, it's the actual DHT conversion process that's occurring from the 5 AR enzymes from within the prostate organ that's growing the prostate.

Now just like you said now the question is, is it possible to stop the enzyme activity in the scalp alone with out at the same time stopping the enzyme activity elsewhere on a systematic level.

Only God knows the answere to this question, personally I would take this risk. I would shave my head.

[entropy]

The way I look at it/understand the biological process is the same as your logic:

What's making the hair fall out of the scalp is the actualy conversion of T-DHT IN THE SCALP. In other words the 5AR type 2 enzymes in the scalp that are doing the actual conversion/production of DHT in the scalp is what's damaging the hair follicles and making the hair fall out. The actual DHT that's now in your blood stream after the conversion is completed IS NOT making your hair fall out.

Same thing with the prostate IF DHT TRULY has any involvement in prostate enlargement (which is up for debate to say the lest) it's not the end result of DHT being their now in your blood, it's the actual DHT conversion process that's occurring from the 5 AR enzymes from within the prostate organ that's growing the prostate.

Now just like you said now the question is, is it possible to stop the enzyme activity in the scalp alone with out at the same time stopping the enzyme activity elsewhere on a systematic level.

Only God knows the answere to this question, personally I would take this risk. I would shave my head.

Except that's wrong because exogenous dht causes hairloss anyway. Locally blocking the receptor is the only way to stop hairloss properly, its unstoppable and trying to stop it is a recipe for disaster.

[5 alpha victim]

Except that's wrong because exogenous dht causes hairloss anyway. Locally blocking the receptor is the only way to stop hairloss properly, its unstoppable and trying to stop it is a recipe for disaster.

Thanks for the input but I would continue to debate this one with u if I cared enough. Truth is I'm here to learn as much as I can about DHT prohormones and PCT and not talk about the mechanisms of actions of DHT inhibiters.

But for the record when considering what you said as far as implying that the "primary" mechanism of action as it relates to how exactly a DHT inhibiter prevents hair loss from the scalp is that the DHT inhibiter is "locally blocking the receptors in the scalp" I have to tell you that this is about 25 percent accurate.

This is because if this was true than that would mean that when ever a guy stops taking a DHT inhibiter the receptors would simply become "unblocked" and a couple of things would now take place:

1) hair loss from the scalp would start again as the receptors in the scalp are no longer "blocked locally".

2) experiencing long term symptoms of being "finbastrided" would not be possible if all that the stuff is doing is "blocking receptors locally" as the receptors would no longer be blocked after discontinuation.

Even though serum DHT levels do contribute to prettty much everything DHT is responsible for in our bodies the primary mechanism of action that's occurring when we take such a drug is the destroying of the enzymes that convert t-DHT through out our entire bodies including places like the scalp. Unfortunately some guys endocrine systems just simply cannot "turn" the enzymes back on. That's why increasing the enzymes is the key to recovery just like cdnuts did.

Unless of course you are going to argue that the temporary taking of a DHT inhibiter has the capability to block the receptors permantly in places like the scalp. Problem with this argument is that it's possible but highly unlikely. Consider my last point. Many long term "PFS sufferes" have normal blood DHT levels but there prostates are small, their hair does not fall out, they don't get acne and they have no sex drive. Thats proof that they still produce normal amounts of DHT in certain parts of their bodies but the enzymes in certain parts of the body such as the scalp remain "off".

I will not go back and force with this as I promised I would not take part in turning this into PH.