Idea - Cycling DHT and DHT Prohormones

[Jelisej]

It seems that you got your question answered, I would just add few bits- some sex hormones/AAS are more supressive than others but they are all supressive including DHT so its not good to use them if trying to recover natural production.
As for DHT derivatives they all have similarites but also they have some differences- for example during cycle person can combine primobolan and masteron- they are both DHT derivatives but each of them activates few receptors than other doesnt so in a way they can compliment each other- so instead of using higher amount of masteron one can reduce masteron dose and add some primobola

Andractim is very similar to natural DHT, AFAIK its closest you can get to natural DHT but it does not have much anabolic properties (if any?), so andractim can be used and is best choice IMO to top up natural DHT levels (for example on TRT) while masteron would not be best , but using it during cycle it is poor choice and masteron would be good one.
I always recommend to people when they use testosterone to use some DHT derivstives as well- main reason is that testosterone does increase muscle growth but strenght not so much while DHT does not increase muscle growth that much but increases strenght. So its win-win situation.

[Bam24]

This "andractim" is it prescription only or ??? Surprisingly I've never heard of it before SS..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[silverstrand]

I want to let everyone know that I have been following posters of this website for some time now and very much appreciate being a part of this group. I've made mistakes in my cycles and post cycles before. To avoid any future mistakes, I humbly come to this forum to run my ideas across those with the experience and knowledge. My goal is to prevent myself from making any more bad decisions and to contribute any knowledge/ideas that may help others.
That said,
My use of DHT at this time is to get my hormonal balance in place before packing on muscle. Right now I'm running a calorie deficit. Roughly 4 years ago, I was a soft 212lbs probably 25% body fat (like a woman) because my hormones were so out of wack. Diet and exercise reduced that to 190lbs. My cycles and continued diet and exercise now has me down to 165lbs and sub 14% body fat. I'm 5'10. The chicks are hitting on me hardcore but my desire is moderate (not terrible). It’s like I'm driving a Ford Fiat (nothing against anyone who owns one) when I know what it’s like to drive a Ferrari Formula 1. The DHT is helping me retain most of my muscle and strength while shedding fat. Part of my program is to burn this aromatizing fat for a couple reasons - 1. More fat ='s more estrogen and secondly, I read some many articles in which many toxins are stored in fat. Its amazing, I read about this guy that use to do drugs in the 70's and had quit for over 20 years. He was then asked to do a detox and the guy was like, "wth, I've been clean for 20 years." To which, the response was "Just do it". So he started burning fat and then hitting the Sauna, roughly 7 times in one month. His first time in the sauna, he had an acid trip and couldn't believe it. Several other drug highs followed until they subsided after a month. Point is, I may still have residuals of this F...k'n pharma drug stored in my fat. Just a guess, maybe not. Either way, I like the cut I'm experiencing and my sauna time every week. Goal is to hit 10%.

I'll check out GYmTonic for the EPi.

BTW - I did check out Tren for possible uses. My main concern right now is it can cause insomnia which is something I'm struggling with. Its really the worst problem I have to deal with at this time. Some days are torture but lately its been on and off.

- - - Updated - - -

Andractim is prescription only, however, you can get it at all saints clinic. They ship from overseas.

[weekend]

are you currently on test?

the reason why it will work better with actual test in y our system is undoubtedly your natural test (and thus source of estrogen) are going down, and this is going to cause changes in aromatase activity over time. kind of the way people can get gyno after a cycle of something like anavar solo even though no estrogenic buildup couldve occurred.
definitely add 100-200 mg test, then try the DHT derivatives before going to tren

[silverstrand]

are you currently on test?

the reason why it will work better with actual test in y our system is undoubtedly your natural test (and thus source of estrogen) are going down, and this is going to cause changes in aromatase activity over time. kind of the way people can get gyno after a cycle of something like anavar solo even though no estrogenic buildup couldve occurred.
definitely add 100-200 mg test, then try the DHT derivatives before going to tren

I'm not on test at this time. The reason is my aromatase activity is very high - I'm estrogen dominant at this time and that is because I have little androgen procduction to counter blanace it. I dont have any labs but from everything I've read, this seems to be very much the case. Also, from what I've read, straight DHT isn't as suppressive as direct test; however, I'm not sure to what degree. Andractim reports show little hpta suppression and Eric Potratz also points to limited suppression from straight DHT prohormones. My hope is that any reduction in Testosterone will also reduce my Estrogen and leave more DHT available to do its thing. A lot of this is guess work.
I never knew Anavar could cause gyno, I'm guessing more so from PCT versus during cycle. This makes me think a taping approach from my current DHT might be a better way to end my cycle rather than straight dropping it. I've been thinking about this for some time now and haven't made up my mind.

[BBG]

Mestebol (oxime of proviron) is still available... Currently OOS but should be back soon.

[tallstraw]

^how does that act?

[weekend]

I think you're thinking about this in the wrong way. I was definitely suppressed on my first cycle of androhard only. My nuts shrank significantly.

Adding test at a low dose will reduce the chances of some type of estrogenic rebound. You're increasing your likelyhood of one by dropping estrogen too low through a dht only cycle.

That is the same way anavar would cause gyno.

I do like tapering dht into pct though. It allows gyno prevention and strength retention while your testosterone begins to increase from the serms. 2 week taper is good.

[weekend]

(Low estrogen increases aromatase activity/production because there is no substrate (testosterone) to be converted. The dht antagonizes this increased aromatase (and otherwise it wouldn't be doing anything else) but once you're all said and done you've increased your bodies aromatase activity (although in theory the 5-ar activity will also increase. You must remember high estrogen reduces your desired activity of dht (they are competitive with relatively opposite effects)

- - - Updated - - -

Lol at my use of parentheses

[English]

Hi Silverstrand,

I am virtually recovered now from the same shit your dealing with, i took propecia though which lowered DHT and ended in same result as you. Many guys get the same issue from taking saw palmetto too - in a way it is a relief for me that it is not just some weird phenomenen from propecia/finasteride.
I have been through the same recoverery plan as a number of others who also recovered - i copied the common denominators.
Of course it is possible that i am wrong, but i am 100% convinced that our issue has nothing to do with suppressed AR5 expression now. Why? Because virtually every blood result i have seen - and i have looked at 100's - from sufferers has shown normal DHT expression, or at least in the range expected when linked with the free testosterone scores.
You can take DHT away completely, leaving normal T and E levels and most guys still feel fine.
No, IMO you can cycle the DHT by all means, primarily because studies have shown the presence of increased DHT does upregulate AR5 activity, but personally i would do it for smaller cycles, with modest doses.
My money is on the cause being some kind of downregulation of receptors or signalling issue, that gradually fixes over time, encouraged by solid diet, low stress and the resultant raising of androgens - over time.
To give you some idea of where i was - i lost nearly 28 pounds of muscle, suffered anxiety, insomnia, had all the sexual issues, thin dry skin, hair dry and falling out. I certainly wanted to die most days, but never gave up on being positive and carrying out the plan.
If you haven't already done it, i would advise you read the recovery story of CDSNUTS on propecia help -BUT IGNORE ALL THE NEGATIVE SHIT ON THERE - print it off and keep it with you.
Personally i only fasted for 3 days, but i did the rest and i have all but recovered within 17 months. His recovery plan mirrored most of the stuff within about 10 other recovery stories i read too there and on the rest of the web, and whilst he did cycle DHT, it was for just 6 weeks and this was one small part of the overal plan, and i will add that this did not feature in any of the tens of recoveries i have read elsewhere.
Regards bloods, it might help a bit to see the easy transformation i achieved (with the advice of Jelisej) by reading the SHBG questions thread (in general section), and this lifted me from an almost recovered state to what i consider a recovered state - if not quite optimal yet.
More power to you if you achieve your desired result in a different way, but just drawing your attention to the more common recovery protocol for this issue.
Hope that helps a bit.