Idea - Cycling DHT and DHT Prohormones

[5 alpha victim]

Hi English,
I have been following your posts. It sounds like you have learned a lot and have made major progress.

You said that:

Personally i only fasted for 3 days, but i did the rest and i have all but recovered within 17 months.

During the 17 month that most of your recovery took place during how much of that time did you spend cycling DHT prohormones and cycling natural T boostets/herbs?

You mentioned that you cycled epi andro at least once and that you are curruntly cycling alpha hard. Are these your only two DHT prohormone cycles?

What's your experience with rotating t boosting herbs ?

Thanks for any more info you can provide

[English]

Its a relief for me as well that Fenugreek, Rice Extract, and Saw Palmentto can all cause the same issues and that those issues can be resolved.
There's a lot of theories floating around such as the one you mention. Also, I've read somewhere that the body potentially is producing a form of androgen resistence, mimicking Finasteride after stopping the drug. I guess it would make sense that the body once it gets used to a certain homeostatus, it will fight to maintain that status and thereby produce the very compounds no longer administered exogenously. I've looked into transgender from Male to Female and anti androgens are key for this transition. Warning lables should include that this drug can and is used for such purposes. I would have never touched the stuff if I knew. I believe my body is in a confused state, so basically, I need to slap the bitch out of me with androgens and clean lifestyle like you mention.
I took your advice and read his story, there's some great info! I've been to that site before and there is a lot of negativity - I've never been a negative person and I'm very much against that type of behavior.
I'll take a look at the SHBG - I find this interesting because I think the body might actually be binding some of this DHT I put into it and expelling it during urination. I feel, I might be losing a lot of the compounds (another guess). I think you are right in that getting some blood work would be informative.
Can you point me in the direction of those other 10 recovery stories? - if its too much trouble no worries.

We may never know why i suppose, but i am pretty much now of the mindset of who gives a fuck, we only have one life and concentrating on fixing it is basically the only thing in our control.
I researched for at least 12 months, about 20hrs a week - i don't have money worries so i took the time out. I found what i counted up to be around 30 recovery stories in total, both on PH and on the wider net, probably 5 or 6 using pharma assistance like clomid, the remainder just time, and healthy living etc. I wrote the common denominators of what they did into a grid, and i then condensed that down into a recovery plan, binning the bits that were replicated just a couple of times, and majoring on those areas very common to recovery. In the end what i found was that CDSNUTS had pretty much nailed it after 5 years of trial and error (based on the limited set of data i used).
I haven't the time or inclination to provide those recovery stories, the fact is that for every one written on the web, there are another 10 probably, maybe even 100 times more. Alot of guys just quietly get on with it, and it is my firm belief that it tends to be those that don't make a big song and dance over it that recover- the very people that are likely to not be posting stuff on forums. Personally, i found the support helpful of this forum though, and i am an obsessive personality so i could not avoid worrying like fuck, and thus needed support to limit it, which ultimately wins the day

[English]

You absolutely dont appreciate it until its lost - its been 10 years for me now - I want that back! After reading about other peoples successes, I feel I can. I'm not too sure that my levels are all that good, only because I cant sleep for much longer than 4 hrs at a time and I dont have morning wood. I a rare occasion, I will wake up to a solid rock hard boner but thats so sporatic. Typically, I have morning soft wood. Sex is alright. The women I'm with seem to enjoy it but I know its just not me.
Even though I've been running Andractim for a month and a half, my hair hasn't fallen out. I've even tried rubbing some on the top of my scalp and still my hair stays strong. This leads me to believe there is some form of androgen resistance. I've also noticed that after urinating, my libido goes down from the uptick it gets from Andractim and Androhard. I believe my body is trying to expel the androgens. This is also why I think a longer cycle makes more sense. I've read from this forum and from people like Eric Potratz that it takes 2 months or more to directly affect the hormonal balance of the body in a perminant way. Shorter cycles allow for a rebound to the norm but I dont want my current norm, I want a new norm.

For me and this is just my opinion, you are talking crazy stuff. I think you are correct that there is androgen resistance in whatever form, and you have demonstrated that to yourself by knowing your hair is sensitive to DHT yet is unnafected by all the DHT you are putting into it, yet you think shovelling more and more of the stuff down your throat and for ever longer periods will help. I am pretty certain it won't and you could just make things worse as if your body is seeking an equilibrium of low androgen (as that is what it has become used to) then logic would suggest that exogenously and massively raising androgen could make it downgrade it's sensitivity to androgen even further - then what happens when you get off it?
You need to raise your sensitivity to androgen, you do that by training to the sensible limit that your body can take - HIIT training, heavy weights, mixed with cardio or regular walking to keep yourself fit. Great diet, laughing fucking, thinking you are the big alpha male dog etc. This shit seems to raise sensitivity to androgens, and that makes sense if you think about the 300 odd million year of evolution that has got us to where we are.

[English]

No, I dont feel you are ripping me at all. I appreciate your feedback - I joined this group for that very reason. I dont want people to just agree with me all the time. I've made mistakes in the past and these discussions help me refine my thoughts and therefore my corresponding actions to avoid similar mistakes in the future.
To answer your question, yes, I've only been serious about it the last couple years. I only ever felt like I was capable of reversing this condition within the last 2 years. I really needed too because as we age, naturally our hormone profiles drop. Well, I crippled mine way too early and therefore, I really started feeling like shit. I knew it wasn't natural and that I had to do something.
I want to finish up this cycle and take a long 3 month break where I will have a PCT and cycle testosterone boosters. This thread was started because I'm trying to plan out my next cycle and I'm brainstorming. Plus I figured it be a great way to meet everyone on this forum.

Good, you have the correct attitude, for me you need to get off whatever shit you are on at the moment and take 3 months off doing all the right things, naturally, get bloods done, post them and then let people like Jelisej comment, they know way more than me about altering bloods, but lets be clear on this, you want to nudge them in the right direction being as natural as possible, not hit them with a sledge hammer. The main thing is mental health, diet, exercise and consistency over long periods of time.
Not sure why you would even complete your current cycle to be honest, your just putting more pressure on your HPTA axis when you don't know whether it was already on it's knees. You cycle when you know your axis is in good shape, otherwise you risk fucking it up, then you'll not only have androgen resistence, you will also not be producing enough to know when you are recovering etc.

[English]

Diet is great - mainly raw foods/vegies with some Pea Protein in the mix. If anyone has something against Pea protein, let me konw - all research I found points to it being good source of protein that isn't anti androgenic. Exercise is good too. I can run 2 miles in 12min 30 secs to give you some idea of conditioning.
The different forms are mainly because of their different delivery systems, timing, and the way the body converts the various hormones to DHT. At this time, I'm only on 5gs of andractim and 1/3 does of Androhard V3 per day.

- - - Updated - - -



No prob tallstraw, gald I could help

Straight away i see you are not eating or exercising right. I have nothing again pea protein, veggies or running a decent 2 mile time, but you should be concentrating on animal protein, lots of high quality saturated animal fats, then comes lots of veggies and fruit and complex carbohydrate. Your exercise should be based on HIIT, calisthetics (i will have spelt that wrong), weights (5x5) and complemented by some cardio to keep you fit.
You may be doing all that, but i doubt it given you didn't mention it. This my friend is why you have spent 10 years like you have.

[English]

Hi English,
I have been following your posts. It sounds like you have learned a lot and have made major progress.

You said that:

Personally i only fasted for 3 days, but i did the rest and i have all but recovered within 17 months.

During the 17 month that most of your recovery took place during how much of that time did you spend cycling DHT prohormones and cycling natural T boostets/herbs?

You mentioned that you cycled epi andro at least once and that you are curruntly cycling alpha hard. Are these your only two DHT prohormone cycles?

What's your experience with rotating t boosting herbs ?

Thanks for any more info you can provide

All of my recovery came from diet, exercise and right at the end i took low dose AI which took me over the top and actually increased E whilst also increasing T (yes you can achieve that with smart use of AI)
Only 3 weeks ago did i run Alpha Hard, but to be honest being on stuff i know is affecting my HPTA axis kinda freaks me out and i don't like it, although it did give me some additional mental clarity. I did try epi andro for about 3 days but it made me so tired i couldn't cope with it and binned it.
I'm gunna stay natural, apart from what is now an extremely low dose of exemestane twice a week, and i will be halving that every 2 months till off it.

If you want to recover, replicate CDSNUTS / Mitches /Chi's / My recovery plan - all are virtually one and the same. I would also add holosync by centrepoint to it, and read mind over medicine by lisa rankin. Most of what you need to achieve is in the mind.

[tallstraw]

English, think there's ever a point of recovery like us normal guys, to the point that you can cycle again? Or do you think you'll have to stay natty?

[English]

English, think there's ever a point of recovery like us normal guys, to the point that you can cycle again? Or do you think you'll have to stay natty?

Hi TS,

I think your saying can post fin guys recover fully and react normally to prohormones etc. The answer to that is definitely yes, as i react fairly normally to them myself now with a sharper mind, and i forgot to say it positively affected my intensity at the gym, and i function normally now elsewhere anyways so i am pretty much there now. CDSNUTS is over the horizon with his recovery and he cycles normally now and has been for a while.
For me, i am being cautious while cycling because it has been a lot of hard work to recover solid T levels etc. As i gain in confidence with time i do plan to extend cycles to 6 weeks, and in the end optimise to the level cd is at.
I've nothing to complain about though, i tip the scales at over 14 stone now and all muscle, i'm pretty fit and healthy again, solid bloods etc. happy days.

[tallstraw]

Okay, cool yeah I didn't mean normal in an offensive way. More so a baseline and yu guys are the outliers kind of way. Whether or not this basically killed all future steroid use or not. But my question has been answered thank you.

[English]

Okay, cool yeah I didn't mean normal in an offensive way. More so a baseline and yu guys are the outliers kind of way. Whether or not this basically killed all future steroid use or not. But my question has been answered thank you.

When i have been recovered for more than 2 years, i will never again touch DHT derivatives, AI's or any pharma of any sort unless i have cancer or other such lift threatening condition. I have learnt a lot after vanity led me to using fin (following a doctors recommendation at a party when we were taking the piss out of each other hair)
I used to body build 100% natural many years ago and i put on muscle easily, looked great and life was great. I am just starting to put muscle on easily again and after all the hundreds of stories that i have read from both terrified bodybuilders and ex fin or other such pharma product users who have broken their HPTA's and can't get them restarted, i honestly cannot think the use of any of it is a good idea for anyone who is already healthy.
When you are young it is the very hormones you seek to improve upon that drive you to take risks you cannot fully understand until you take one risk too many. You are older for far longer than you are younger, and exercising caution in the area of steroid use will ensure that you don't burn bright for 10 years, and then potentially have to live a life bordering on hell for another 50. So many people on the net who have done exactly that, just like i nearly did (except via fin), thank fuck i was able to recover.
Just be careful.