Idea - Cycling DHT and DHT Prohormones

[silverstrand]

It is what it is. Look forward, not back. You cant do anything about the past. You only have control of the present.

The holosync will work.

I hear you. Thanks man!

[English]

My biggest hurdle at this time is Sleep. I've been feeling myself coming back online in very subtle ways - ways that reminded me of who I was before all this happened. For instance, I was playing cards on Friday night with a group of guys having a great time. I went all in with two other big stacks on the table and I could feel the rush I got from this. My friend noticed how I was shaking. I was shaking becuase I was so excited/nervous. This is exactly the type of emotion I use to have on the regular before fin and this reaction was so strong this time, I couldn't ignore it.
I do my best to live life in enjoyment but this lack of decent sleep is torturous. I need energy to enjoy life and this is the catch 22. Right now, I'd say half my week is shot due to lack of quality sleep, the other half I feel pretty good actually. I just wish my mind and body would stay alseep for more than 4 hours. A solid 8 hours rest would be so beneficial to recovery but my body just doesn't want to do it.

As CD says, holosync, i use that too and they have a sleep suite which helps your brain into the Delta 90 minute pattern, but you will need to buy the sleep headphones with it.
Also, read "my very easy sleep method" by Sasha Stevens. I seem to recall this was another CD spot, and it helped me out no-end. Take no meds for sleep whatsoever.
The most important thing to do is think "so what" if you don't sleep like you want to, then you start to - it's weird. Also, as your condition improves your sleep improves alongside it.
For me sleeping was also a big issue. I get 5 to 7 hours a night now which to be fair was what i got pre-fin.
I would be very surprised if Holosync does not get you to sleep, and you can just put it on again if you wake up and can't back to sleep within say 30 minutes. The beauty with Holosync is that even if you are not sleeping, the meditational effect offers similar if not greater benefits, so not sleeping becomes less stressful, which results in more sleep. Like almost all things in life, insomnia is largely a mental thing.

[hossam]

i use a new approach for sleeping:
2 drops of Castor oil around my eyes and on my scalp will
help me sleep deeply no matter what cycle i am on!
around the eyes to help me sleep and on my scalp to regrow hair
i use this brand
Home Health Castor Oil Cold Pressed

as it doesn't have any smell and cost effective

[Crank92]

Silverstrand, sorry to be blunt but you are experimenting with some serious shit without having any idea of your current hormonal situation, sufferers of this condition often think this or that about their hormones, get tested and find the opposite of what they thought the results would be. I know of many guys with high T, high DHT and normal E and yet they impotent and suffer with low androgen symptoms- this is the post fin condition sadly.
If i were you i would get off the DHT and all pharma for a few months, concentrate on diet, exercise and your mental state and then get bloods done. It is relatively easy to manipulate your bloods but you really need to know the position from which you are manipulating in the first place.
As an example, 5 blood tests over my first year of suffering showed my androgen levels were in the toilet, but my last 2 bloods have shown T at 28 and 24, (800 and 700) E at around 40 nmol/L and SHBG at 36, and i got them there through diet, exercise and extremely low dose of AI. I could achieve this because i told the guys here my bloods. Jelisej advised me and i reacted accordingly.
You are shooting in the dark and given how easy it is to get your bloods done, surely you should see where you are at. If you keep diet and exercise solid and get off all pharma etc. for 3 months, like many guys with this issue, you may well already have naturally high T and DHT yet still feel shit, and this is often the way. In this situation you just have to keep positive, and keep the exercise and diet consistent and over time you will improve, and yes, i see you have been suffering for almost 10 years, but from what you wrote, you have only just got serious about exercise and nutrition yes? I expect that you are retaining muscle better as a result of your recent diet and exercise and potential upregulation of AR receptors etc. not the DHT which is not particularly androgenic in relation to muscle building.
My bloods look great, but i am still not feeling optimally healthy. It sucks but such is the condition, sometimes shit just takes time to work it's way through.
I hope you don't think i am ripping into your methodology unduly. I am one of the most positive guys there is when it comes to recovering from this condition, but to get recovered, it takes both positivity, but also a considered approach. After so long i want to see you recover as you clearly have the will to do it. I just want the best for you, so hopefully i have given you some more information from someone who has all but recovered.
By the way, just to add weight to what i am saying. A friend of mine decided to do follow the same plan as me, virtually at the same time, we both left Propecia Help because it was so negative, he is all but recovered too now. Neither of us owe our recoveries to DHT or derivitives, however both of us are now cycling with them, but just to optimise. Both of us know our blood conditions through testing.
Just sayin.
All the very best of luck to you in whatever you decide.

Hi English and others,

I'm a 5AR victim too, although not via fin but Accutane.

I crashed on 1st Jan 2013 and have been left in a pretty bad state. I recovered from the psychological issues (anhedonia mainly), but sexual issues persevere and are worsening.

However, even prior to taking Accutane I was living healthy. I have been eating paleo for about 5 years. I weight train 3-4x/week with a focus on large compound movements, mainly squat and deadlift variations. I also compete in MMA so HIIT is incorporated extensively prior to competing.

My T levels have doubled, now up at top of range 26.8 (I forget the the units) on a scale of 8-28. Yet I still suffer.

I'm thinking of playing around with some pharmaceuticals considering my lack of luck with the more holistic route. I'm thinking AI's. Any thoughts?

Of note, tribulus and creatine in high doses make my symptoms worse.

I would be very interested in hearing others inputs, as I am a bit lost as what to do now.

[Cdsnuts]

Hi English and others,

I'm a 5AR victim too, although not via fin but Accutane.

I crashed on 1st Jan 2013 and have been left in a pretty bad state. I recovered from the psychological issues (anhedonia mainly), but sexual issues persevere and are worsening.

However, even prior to taking Accutane I was living healthy. I have been eating paleo for about 5 years. I weight train 3-4x/week with a focus on large compound movements, mainly squat and deadlift variations. I also compete in MMA so HIIT is incorporated extensively prior to competing.

My T levels have doubled, now up at top of range 26.8 (I forget the the units) on a scale of 8-28. Yet I still suffer.

I'm thinking of playing around with some pharmaceuticals considering my lack of luck with the more holistic route. I'm thinking AI's. Any thoughts?

Of note, tribulus and creatine in high doses make my symptoms worse.

I would be very interested in hearing others inputs, as I am a bit lost as what to do now.

It's preferable to start a new thread of your own rather then hijack someone else s.

[silverstrand]

i use a new approach for sleeping:
2 drops of Castor oil around my eyes and on my scalp will
help me sleep deeply no matter what cycle i am on!
around the eyes to help me sleep and on my scalp to regrow hair
i use this brand
Home Health Castor Oil Cold Pressed

as it doesn't have any smell and cost effective

I'll look into this as well - thanks Hossam. I remember reading Castor Oil will suppress DHT so I will need to research it before I give it a honest go. BTW, I noticed your post on bulbine natalensis. This does look to be a very promissing herbal test booster - however, I'm not sure how it will affect DHT levels. I've read a few articles on it and it seems like a great addition to my PCT herbs.

CD, have you ever looked in cycling bulbine natalensis?

[Cdsnuts]

I'll look into this as well - thanks Hossam. I remember reading Castor Oil will suppress DHT so I will need to research it before I give it a honest go. BTW, I noticed your post on bulbine natalensis. This does look to be a very promissing herbal test booster - however, I'm not sure how it will affect DHT levels. I've read a few articles on it and it seems like a great addition to my PCT herbs.

CD, have you ever looked in cycling bulbine natalensis?

I've heard of it before, but have not researched it myself.

[English]

Hi English and others,

I'm a 5AR victim too, although not via fin but Accutane.

I crashed on 1st Jan 2013 and have been left in a pretty bad state. I recovered from the psychological issues (anhedonia mainly), but sexual issues persevere and are worsening.

However, even prior to taking Accutane I was living healthy. I have been eating paleo for about 5 years. I weight train 3-4x/week with a focus on large compound movements, mainly squat and deadlift variations. I also compete in MMA so HIIT is incorporated extensively prior to competing.

My T levels have doubled, now up at top of range 26.8 (I forget the the units) on a scale of 8-28. Yet I still suffer.

I'm thinking of playing around with some pharmaceuticals considering my lack of luck with the more holistic route. I'm thinking AI's. Any thoughts?

Of note, tribulus and creatine in high doses make my symptoms worse.

I would be very interested in hearing others inputs, as I am a bit lost as what to do now.

High T means nothing if your SHBG is very high, do you know what it is, and thus what your free androgen is?

If your free androgen is good, then that is just the first piece of the jigsaw, the rest is true mental recovery and time. I suspect you think you are mentally recovered, but you are not. There is a big difference between not suffering from anxiety anymore and properly laughing at stuff during the day, making jokes and being free and easy with life and yourself - carefree if you like. If you are already like that then i will be amazed your sexual issues persist and i have nothing to offer. I would bet alot that you are not though - is it easy to get like that, no, there are alot of layers to peal back - start with holosync.
No point whatsoever in using AI if your free androgen is good and your E is not high. Work on properly freeing your soul, and give it time, you might need 5 years of doing all the right things, many do.
CD's correct about you starting your own thread, good luck though.

[tallstraw]

We need a subsection. That way everyone can detail there journey, and bounce shit off each other..but that stuff has gotta stay there. I've already seen a new member, maybe 2 in the past 2 days..only because of this stuff. You were righ guys...FACK!

[silverstrand]

We need a subsection. That way everyone can detail there journey, and bounce shit off each other..but that stuff has gotta stay there. I've already seen a new member, maybe 2 in the past 2 days..only because of this stuff. You were righ guys...FACK!

I wont be blowing this forum up with DHT related topics; I can't comment about others. I pretty much feel that I finally have a clear understanding of the mechanics of what went wrong and I know what I will be doing over the next several months.
Additionally, I joined this forum over a year ago without making many posts; only recently have I begun actively participating in discussions. I find many of the other topics on this forum interesting and beneficial. I plan to contribute as much as I seek out.