Idea - Cycling DHT and DHT Prohormones

[Cdsnuts]

Hi 5 Alpha,

Out of respect, I took the time to read your whole post. I believe the discussion has moved away from idea based exchanges to more personalized responses. I'd like to stick with ideas.
I do believe herbal rotation while taking a DHT compound may have its benefits. I believe CD is against it but I dont really see an issue with it except, I do believe estrogen needs to be controlled.

It makes no sense to cycle the herbs with an exogenous hormone, at all. You need to run the hormone for a consistent period of time to reap the benefits the hormone provides. By taking it one day then jumping on to the next thing you've pretty much accomplished nothing besides wasting it.

[silverstrand]

You need to run the hormone for a consistent period of time to reap the benefits the hormone provides. By taking it one day then jumping on to the next thing you've pretty much accomplished nothing besides wasting it.

What specifically are you talking about here? I was refering to cycling T-boosting herbs while running a DHT compound. That is what 5-Alpha was wondering. I believe what you are telling me is cycling DHT compounds doesn't makes much sense, is that right?

[entropy]

Hi 5 Alpha,

Out of respect, I took the time to read your whole post. I believe the discussion has moved away from idea based exchanges to more personalized responses. I'd like to stick with ideas.
I do believe herbal rotation while taking a DHT compound may have its benefits. I believe CD is against it but I dont really see an issue with it except, I do believe estrogen needs to be controlled.

Using herbs that bolster and optimise your endocrine system whilst your endocrine system is suppressed by exogenous hormones holds no benefit IMO.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi 5 Alpha,

Out of respect, I took the time to read your whole post. I believe the discussion has moved away from idea based exchanges to more personalized responses. I'd like to stick with ideas.
I do believe herbal rotation while taking a DHT compound may have its benefits. I believe CD is against it but I dont really see an issue with it except, I do believe estrogen needs to be controlled.

Using herbs that bolster and optimise your endocrine system whilst your endocrine system is suppressed by exogenous hormones holds no benefit IMO.

[Cdsnuts]

What specifically are you talking about here? I was refering to cycling T-boosting herbs while running a DHT compound. That is what 5-Alpha was wondering. I believe what you are telling me is cycling DHT compounds doesn't makes much sense, is that right?

It makes no sense to use DHT the way he plans on using it.

[pman42]

Good thread.

FWIW, I noticed way more benefit to applying testosterone to my balls than I did to applying Andractim (although I was applying the Andractim to the chest). The Andractim seems to have a carrier that sits on top of the skin. hours later I could still feel it. Axiron has a much better carrier that absorbs quick and leaves very little film. As an added bonus, the cup applicator Axiron comes with (designed to apply to the underarms) works perfectly as a ball dip container.

[5 alpha victim]

I used Axiron for the short time I attempted TRT. Used it for four months at max prescribed dose. Only moved my total T up into the 600's so I did not think it was worth it.

I feel this way even more so now that I know about cycling natty T boosting herbs. I feel I can reach levels close to that naturally.

LoL on the ball dipping cover with Axiron. I can't say I did not try the same shit.

[Enuke65]

What's wrong with T levels in the 600's? Especially if it's pharm grade and prescribed?

[5 alpha victim]

Short answere there is nothing wrong with that.

Long answere I did not feel it was worth being dependent on prescription Testosterone forever (or for the long run) or dealing with funding the cost to fill the prescription every month. Also the endo who prescribed me it was anti HCG so I figured the gonads would start shrinking eventually with out that. Even if I could get the HCG from him now I'm on two diff types of Meds at all times. And all for average range levels that did next to nothing for me in the gym.

But also keep in mind I'm one of those DHT inhibitor people so I'm sure not having the most optimal response to the average ranged T could also be contributed to that as well.

This may sound stupid but the "marketing scheme" Axiron used left a bad taste in my mouth. I remember Axiron giving me a card that covered the portion my Insurance would not cover for the first year only. The way I take that is they get your body dependent upon it for the first year than your on your own with paying what your insurance won't cover. Smart for them...

I mean lets face it how many guys go on TRT for a year and stop. Prob not many.

My goal is to reach the 500's with herb cycling. It's a way to out smart "the system" if you will. Seeing that I don't have primary hypogonadism and my nuts still work I feel that if I "feed" them properly I'll produce average T levels naturally.

[English]

Short answere there is nothing wrong with that.

Long answere I did not feel it was worth being dependent on prescription Testosterone forever (or for the long run) or dealing with funding the cost to fill the prescription every month. Also the endo who prescribed me it was anti HCG so I figured the gonads would start shrinking eventually with out that. Even if I could get the HCG from him now I'm on two diff types of Meds at all times. And all for average range levels that did next to nothing for me in the gym.

But also keep in mind I'm one of those DHT inhibitor people so I'm sure not having the most optimal response to the average ranged T could also be contributed to that as well.

This may sound stupid but the "marketing scheme" Axiron used left a bad taste in my mouth. I remember Axiron giving me a card that covered the portion my Insurance would not cover for the first year only. The way I take that is they get your body dependent upon it for the first year than your on your own with paying what your insurance won't cover. Smart for them...

I mean lets face it how many guys go on TRT for a year and stop. Prob not many.

My goal is to reach the 500's with herb cycling. It's a way to out smart "the system" if you will. Seeing that I don't have primary hypogonadism and my nuts still work I feel that if I "feed" them properly I'll produce average T levels naturally.

5 alpha, your target is too low, you can achieve way more than 500 naturally if you do most things right. I applaud you for getting off the gear though. I had post fin issues, same as you. I tested around 300 for nearly a year, once a little under i think. Six months later i was testing at around 850 without any chemical support: High fat high quality diet, plymetrics, calisthetics, sleep, cold showers, explosive competitive sport and mindset, achievement, strong friendships, strong family, enjoyable goal driven project, normal thoughts, calm mind, relaxing holidays, meditation. That is how to do it. Be a go getting motherfucker who's in charge all of the time, but is not scared to relax, love and protect. Be like this and people respect you, look up to you, seek your advice, and suddenly you feel worthy, you're a proper guy again and that ultimatley is the feeling that creates high T and high receptivity to T. You can do all the chemicals in the world, best diet, great exercise, but without feeling worthy, and then feeling like a boss, you will not get high T. You have to convince yourself via constant positive thoughts and achievements and by concentrating on the other areas i listed. The moment you are in this mindset allied to positive actions and diet etc. your body will have no choice but to give you alpha male T numbers. Not that this is important to me anymore as it is how i feel that is important to me, not T numbers, but i gave final bloods last week in order to remove myself from endo supervision which i was put on over a year ago (i ignored everything the fucking idiot had advised me by the way) T number was 910, shbg 33. I'm 41. I rotate some T boosting herbs, the rest is as described. My point is throw your shitty target of 500 out of the window, you can be whatever you want to be, if you aim for a below average 500, then you will stay Beta, nothing wrong with that BTW, but you can be Alpha if you want. I've been both over the last 2 years, Alpha is way better IMO.

[Cdsnuts]

5 alpha, your target is too low, you can achieve way more than 500 naturally if you do most things right. I applaud you for getting off the gear though. I had post fin issues, same as you. I tested around 300 for nearly a year, once a little under i think. Six months later i was testing at around 850 without any chemical support: High fat high quality diet, plymetrics, calisthetics, sleep, cold showers, explosive competitive sport and mindset, achievement, strong friendships, strong family, enjoyable goal driven project, normal thoughts, calm mind, relaxing holidays, meditation. That is how to do it. Be a go getting motherfucker who's in charge all of the time, but is not scared to relax, love and protect. Be like this and people respect you, look up to you, seek your advice, and suddenly you feel worthy, you're a proper guy again and that ultimatley is the feeling that creates high T and high receptivity to T. You can do all the chemicals in the world, best diet, great exercise, but without feeling worthy, and then feeling like a boss, you will not get high T. You have to convince yourself via constant positive thoughts and achievements and by concentrating on the other areas i listed. The moment you are in this mindset allied to positive actions and diet etc. your body will have no choice but to give you alpha male T numbers. Not that this is important to me anymore as it is how i feel that is important to me, not T numbers, but i gave final bloods last week in order to remove myself from endo supervision which i was put on over a year ago (i ignored everything the fucking idiot had advised me by the way) T number was 910, shbg 33. I'm 41. I rotate some T boosting herbs, the rest is as described. My point is throw your shitty target of 500 out of the window, you can be whatever you want to be, if you aim for a below average 500, then you will stay Beta, nothing wrong with that BTW, but you can be Alpha if you want. I've been both over the last 2 years, Alpha is way better IMO.

Awesome natty numbers English. Very impressive. It just goes to show you what you can achieve when you subscribe to particular lifestyle changes and stay CONSISTENT over time. Great numbers.

The cold shower thing is something that I've been meaning to experiment with, but haven't yet. What benefits do you personally feel from doing this? It's another tool I want to add to the tool box, because when it comes to increasing and then keeping high natty T levels, you can never have enough weapons in the arsenal.