Explain the Science of This

[Thanksgiving]

I was actually going to fast longer but I had family visiting. It actually fucked up my refeed and as you can see I ate too much too fast. I typically don't drink but I also had a beer and a glass of wine about two weeks after the fast.

I didn't keep a journal of the 10 day fast, sorry

[Thanksgiving]

Also in reference to my timeline post on the last page,

I got on fin November 2010 and came off in April 2011
I had a really really bad summer and was so depressed and felt the need to do something
From August -November 2011 I had limited success with Clomid and Epistane but then got worse.

From November 2011-February 2012 I used progesterone cream but then stopped I can't remember when exactly
March 2012-April 2012 used sustain alpha when I could afford it
May 2012 - August 2012 used DAA and Triazole/Erase
September 2012-February 2013 added Diesel Test
March 2013 can't recall what I used, I was broke, I think just protein powder
August 2013 began using cabergoline
October 2013 added progesterone cream to caber
December 2013 added low dose letrozole to progesterone cream and caber, feel great!
January 2014/February 2014 added andractim and seligiline but started going backwards
And then came off everything for the fast

Again not all these were smart moves, but is purely for education of those in similar predicament

[Cdsnuts]

You're absolutely right it doesn't add up.

Because you either didn't read carefully or misinterpreted my data, or perhaps I wasn't clear.

I had surgery February 27 and fasted for the next 30 DAYS beginning February 28. WATER ONLY. And then a 4 day juice refeed. And yeah I went from 220 to 170. I ended my fast March 28. I couldn't do anything r after the surgery so I fasted.

I had another surgery May 27 and did a 10 DAY water fast with a 4 day refeed.

So I did

30 day water fast
60 days eating
10 day water fast

I'm not trying to prove to anyone that I did a fast. I don't give a shit if you believe me or not, it doesn't matter. I'm not a keyboard hero. I'm willing to post my journals if it would help anyone who is thinking of fasting.

And yeah it was difficult but it wasn't so bad after a few days. I did it all at home because at the time I couldn't afford to go to a fancy institution. But it is important to be educated. Every day I spent researching fasting and watching other fasting journals on YouTube so I knew what to expect.

I wasn't in any danger except that I got a little light headed when I stood up.

Does anyone have advice on the question I asked about dull aches?

I'm posting all this information in attempt to be educational for those who might have similar questions or concerns.

It wasn't clear the way it was written....or it wasn't clear to me. Either way it makes more sense now. Yeah...too much too fast on the refeed. But you cleansed and you see the power and why it's part of the program. That's the important part. And yes, I believe this is now a fin related post.....

Regardless you should be proud of your accomplishment. Most people think they'll starve if they miss lunch. This is something that is extremely helpful and is something that most people can't do.

[5 alpha victim]

I was actually going to fast longer but I had family visiting. It actually fucked up my refeed and as you can see I ate too much too fast. I typically don't drink but I also had a beer and a glass of wine about two weeks after the fast.

I didn't keep a journal of the 10 day fast, sorry

Dude seriously that's very impressive that you did this for thirty days. I feel like if you can do that you can do anything.

I'm into this protocol pretty deep but I only lasted seven days on a water/low amount of juice fast. I went from 190 to 179 pounds in just seven days and could not put up with the thought of going below 179 inorder to complete my goal of 14 days.

hopefully you can beat this thing. You dam well have what it takes

[Thanksgiving]

Update

August 11 I took clomid and letrozole for the last time
August 12 I fasted with only water for a day
August 13 I got back on alpha hard to restore androgenic activity and help lessen any estrogen rebound
August 17 I did a one day fast again
August 20 I began taking tribulus high dose
September 2 my new herbs arrived and I stopped tribulus and began a 7 day rotation
September 4 I water fasted again

So recovering from the whole progesterone fuck up but I have been able to have sex for the last two weeks. So that feels really good. The herbs are helping and the DHT is too.

So in summary my regimen has been alpha hard, herbal boosters, and 10,000-20,000 iu of vitamin D3 daily. Just recently I added in boron, magnesium, zinc, folic acid as well.

But I have been getting puffy nipples, I suspect my estrogen began rebounding about a week ago. Last night I realized holy fuck I have gyno again.

I had gyno surgery 18 months ago but they left a tiny amount as usual so my chest wouldn't cave in.

And I am having anxiety now because I'm pretty sure it's definitely gyno. I am really lean. There is no really hard lump but a number of small chunks and nipples really puffy and chest is starting to square off. I'm fucking angry because I thought I had this taken care of.

Regardless I want to nip this gyno in the bud! I meet with the surgeon who did the surgery in two weeks to see about scar removal and will talk with him about a revision but I hope it isn't necessary.

I'm really paranoid right now. I started taking forerunner reboot at 12 caps a day, it contains IC3 and 5 mg per cap of the suicide aromatase inhibitor that's in PES erase which has 75 mg in one cap. Also I began taking 200 mg DIM and 400 mg resveratol. Is this enough to combat estrogen rebound?

I suspect that my estrogen rebound is especially bad since I came off clomid AND letro. With Clomid I know it elevated my estrogen levels and know that the receptors aren't blocked they are probably stimulates easily, and in addition I suspect my aromatase enzyme is rebounding strongly after being on letro for so long.

I was hoping that high dose alpha hard was enough to combat the estrogen but it rebounded strong regardless.

I wish I had some Aromasin on my hands but I can't get it until I am back in the states.

[douglasmich]

your losing the battle messing with hormones imo. I had 100% reversal of PFS from using clomid and adex but i ended up crashing myself. I was on TRT at the time so it had nothing to do with clomid boosting T. Something to do with blocking the estrogen receptor somehow switched on my 5AR and i felt DHT again. Voice dropped within a few hours. Progesterone worked for me when i had a serm in my system, but not without. I crashed on progesterone and im still recovering 3 months after.

[Thanksgiving]

From what I understand, if you block aromatase, Testosterone either remains testosterone or converts to DHT.

Fin essentially did the opposite. It blocked T to DHT so Testosterone either remained testosterone or converted to estradiol.

It's restoring homeostasis in these pathways, coaching our body back into an androgenic state as you mentioned.

I agree, been messing with hormones too much. I was making steady progress with a simple routine until March when I got greedy, crashed, panicked lol.

I have things under control now and back on a simple routing but this estrogen rebound is a bitch.

I got back on letrozole today at a very low dose to halt the progression of gynecomastia. I will have Aromasin in two weeks and then I can safely taper off letrozole slowly and hopefully without estrogen rebound

[5 alpha victim]

Thanksgiving,

You should just come off of everything and go right on the ultimate stack from wicked sups and run a nice light PCT.

After your month PCT run a month or 2 of rotating Natty T boosters. And than take it from there.

It sounds like you had this but then added in way to much random stuff

[Thanksgiving]

The plan is to restore back to baseline.

I felt the best after when on only herbal booster rotation after a few cycles of DHT.

One thing I noticed though is that I need to stay on resveratrol or DIM or a natty anti-E when on the test boosters.

I can't quit everything right now because I'm in the middle of an estrogen rebound phase.

I'm stabilizing where I am right now and then slowly going to come off everything. Each time I've tried to come off everything I get bad effects, so going to come off one thing at a time.

Right now
Alpha hard
Herbal rotation
D3-boron-folic acid-magnesium-zinc
DIM-resveratrol
Micro dose letrozole 25 mcg daily

I think I stopped the gyno that came on after a few days of low dose letrozole.

I dropped the forerunner labs reboot. The 7-Keto-dhea makes me so depressed and I seem to lose strength and get sore. This is the same ingredient that used to be in PES erase and it was good for estrogen control but terrible for my mood.

Also tapering off cabergoline. It makes me tired now and gives me achy muscles. 2 years ago it eliminated brain fog but now it has the opposite effect.

I'm looking to come off letrozole once I get some Aromasin and then taper off that. Have to avoid estrogen rebound, it's a real bitch