Clomid or Nolvadex which one to use

[Brazilianguy]

Jel buddy why are you wasting your time on this guy?

Here's a link to one of his first threads here.

No libido after PCT don't know what to do.

He didn't even take finasteride as far as I can tell so there's literally no way to tell what's wrong with him, he clearly piles drugs and herbs on top of this undiagnosed illness and doesn't listen anyway. We've already told him to stop taking the damned drugs blindly like he does and he's in here again, asking about more drugs he's taken without knowing how they work.

*pause for the next torrent of abuse from this joker*

Entropy why don't you mind your own business? You keep posting where I ask things, leave my posts alone, You will have nothing to gain here so why bother?

I really get pissed everytime I see your messages. Seems like you have nothing to do the whole day so you keep searching my messages to say any stupid thing is in your mind. Go get a job or whatever.

Took benzodiapine years ago, was a pothead, tried progesterone and panax ginseng, tried hydrocortisone all these things made me worse. I'm not asking your opinion Entropy actually I don't even read your posts I just answer when you say shit which is quite often but I understand you have nothing to do the whole day.

[entropy]

There's the torrent of abuse! You're a complete fruit loop buddy, in my country we section people like you cause you're a danger to yourself and others. I pick on you cause everything you do is dangerous and someone has to say something just in case someone else thinks anything you do is a wise thing to repeat.

Nice job on trying to belittle me rather than intelligently defending yourself against the totally reasonable points I keep making buddy.

[5 alpha victim]

Everything I have seen in this thread about Clomid and Nolvadex is consistent with all my research and experience.

Nolvadex blocks estrogen at the pituitary gland causing increased LH and FSH production the same way Clomid does.

However Nolvadex may have some estrogen blocking capabilities in the breast tissue as well as at the pituitary gland. This obviously explains why some guys feel improvements in Gyno related symptoms while on it.

As far as choosing between the SERMS goes, most endos (in the U.S. Anyway) prefer clomid over Nolvadex for increasing testosterone in Men. This is why my old Endo put me on clomid instead of the other SERMS.

As far as the dick shrinking goes, I experienced this on clomid as well. My Endo thought that perhaps the clomid "acts as" an estrogen inside of our bodies in many diff ways that can't completely be explained.

Note I did a two year clomid restart under supervision of my Endo.

[Brazilianguy]

Everything I have seen in this thread about Clomid and Nolvadex is consistent with all my research and experience.

Nolvadex blocks estrogen at the pituitary gland causing increased LH and FSH production the same way Clomid does.

However Nolvadex may have some estrogen blocking capabilities in the breast tissue as well as at the pituitary gland. This obviously explains why some guys feel improvements in Gyno related symptoms while on it.

As far as choosing between the SERMS goes, most endos (in the U.S. Anyway) prefer clomid over Nolvadex for increasing testosterone in Men. This is why my old Endo put me on clomid instead of the other SERMS.

As far as the dick shrinking goes, I experienced this on clomid as well. My Endo thought that perhaps the clomid "acts as" an estrogen inside of our bodies in many diff ways that can't completely be explained.

Note I did a two year clomid restart under supervision of my Endo.

How much mg of clomid did you take per day?
I took 20mg nolva for 3 days and then 10mg it gave me a great reduction on gyno, better memory, libido etc. I'm considerably better. I read that clomid is better when taken alone, low dosage. I'm intending to do The same way I did with nolva. But clomid would be 12.5mg for a week or less.

Clomid also make the ER more sensitive to estrogen making your body use less estrogen.

[5 alpha victim]

How much mg of clomid did you take per day?
I took 20mg nolva for 3 days and then 10mg it gave me a great reduction on gyno, better memory, libido etc. I'm considerably better. I read that clomid is better when taken alone, low dosage. I'm intending to do The same way I did with nolva. But clomid would be 12.5mg for a week or less.

Clomid also make the ER more sensitive to estrogen making your body use less estrogen.

I took 50MG of clomid every other day. Just like someone else said on this thread clomid has a long half life so it's not needed every day. Actually my endo told me in his experience it actually works better EOD than it does every day for the purpose of increasing LH and FSH.

Anything over 50MG of clomid EOD is to much and not necessary. If you are going to respond to clomid it will most likely be the case that you will be a responder with 50mg EOD or less. If you do not respond with that dose adding more most likely won't matter and you will most likely start to get the side effects that come along with clomid.

25mg EOD will probably be ok for most guys recovering their testosterone. But most endos that believe in this stuff go with 50 MG EOD.

As far as clomid making our bodies less sensitive to estrogen, my experience was actually the opposite. It shrank my dick and increased the classic numb feeling us DHT inhibitor guys know all to well. It actually felt like it was "acting as" an estrogen systematically even though it was blocking estrogen in my brain preventing the negative feed back loop to stop LH and FSH production.

[Brazilianguy]

I took 50MG of clomid every other day. Just like someone else said on this thread clomid has a long half life so it's not needed every day. Actually my endo told me in his experience it actually works better EOD than it does every day for the purpose of increasing LH and FSH.

Anything over 50MG of clomid EOD is to much and not necessary. If you are going to respond to clomid it will most likely be the case that you will be a responder with 50mg EOD or less. If you do not respond with that dose adding more most likely won't matter and you will most likely start to get the side effects that come along with clomid.

25mg EOD will probably be ok for most guys recovering their testosterone. But most endos that believe in this stuff go with 50 MG EOD.

As far as clomid making our bodies less sensitive to estrogen, my experience was actually the opposite. It shrank my dick and increased the classic numb feeling us DHT inhibitor guys know all to well. It actually felt like it was "acting as" an estrogen systematically even though it was blocking estrogen in my brain preventing the negative feed back loop to stop LH and FSH production.

You took a very high dosage. What I see is people recomending 12.5mg EOD or E3D.
Tamoxifen made me better and The results stayed. I'm thinking about trying clomid 12.5mg and see If it would help even more.
If you want to see a success case in propeciahelp check legendary he felt 90% better, the problem is that he was also taking letrozole so his E got 0 and Maybe he crashed I'm not sure.

[silverstrand]

You took a very high dosage. What I see is people recomending 12.5mg EOD or E3D.
Tamoxifen made me better and The results stayed. I'm thinking about trying clomid 12.5mg and see If it would help even more.
If you want to see a success case in propeciahelp check legendary he felt 90% better, the problem is that he was also taking letrozole so his E got 0 and Maybe he crashed I'm not sure.

I'm staying away from anything that has the potential of making my dick smaller.
Btw, I dont see how these compounds can help, given our situation. I mean, they block certain estrogen receptors so the body goes in over drive producing testosterone but if you have an estrogen imbalance - wouldn't this logically make things worse since most of that testosterone will now be converted to estrogen. This estrogen can then act on receptors not blocked by Nolva/Clomid. - This probably explains why penile tissue gets reduced; the body is attemping to turn it into a clit.

[5 alpha victim]

I'm staying away from anything that has the potential of making my dick smaller.

Btw, I dont see how these compounds can help, given our situation. I mean, they block certain estrogen receptors so the body goes in over drive producing testosterone but if you have an estrogen imbalance - wouldn't this logically make things worse since most of that testosterone will now be converted to estrogen. This estrogen can then act on receptors not blocked by Nolva/Clomid. - This probably explains why penile tissue gets reduced; the body is attemping to turn it into a clit.

If you have low T like obviously most people on propecia help have than of course raising it is the most logical thing to do. Most guys in their 20's (the average age of the propecia help group) do not want to go on TRT. So of course a SERM is a logical option to correct the low T.

As far as the concern of your T converting E at a higher than normal rate goes... Well that's always a concern no matter which method you are choosing to use to increase your T.

There is nothing about using a SERM to increase T that increases the likely hood that you will have a higher than normal estrogen conversion rate than on TRT. I think my endo that had me on it said it the best when he mentioned Clomid "acting as" an estrogen in the body in ways that are not understood. So your concern is real but thinking a SERM will make you develop a clit is crazy. The shrinking we see can happen when you crush your estrogen to Low as well. Guys on this forum have reported that from taking res 100 which is not even a prescription strength AI.

So it's a hormonal balance issue that causes this most of the time. proper T/estrogen ratios ect.... but there is something about Clomid that does this by some other mechanism of action. Even with that said I personally got more good then bad out of my experience with a Clomid restart

Honestly after my Clomid use, Four months on TRT I believe rotating T boosters, a healthy diet and high intensity training is the best way to go as far as increasing your T goes. Also we have carb backloading which I have not even got into yet.

[silverstrand]

If you have low T like obviously most people on propecia help have than of course raising it is the most logical thing to do. Most guys in their 20's (the average age of the propecia help group) do not want to go on TRT. So of course a SERM is a logical option to correct the low T.

As far as the concern of your T converting E at a higher than normal rate goes... Well that's always a concern no matter which method you are choosing to use to increase your T.

There is nothing about using a SERM to increase T that increases the likely hood that you will have a higher than normal estrogen conversion rate than on TRT. I think my endo that had me on it said it the best when he mentioned Clomid "acting as" an estrogen in the body in ways that are not understood. So your concern is real but thinking a SERM will make you develop a clit is crazy. The shrinking we see can happen when you crush your estrogen to Low as well. Guys on this forum have reported that from taking res 100 which is not even a prescription strength AI.

So it's a hormonal balance issue that causes this most of the time. proper T/estrogen ratios ect.... but there is something about Clomid that does this by some other mechanism of action. Even with that said I personally got more good then bad out of my experience with a Clomid restart

Honestly after my Clomid use, Four months on TRT I believe rotating T boosters, a healthy diet and high intensity training is the best way to go as far as increasing your T goes. Also we have carb backloading which I have not even got into yet.

Ok, if that is the direction you want to go. I just dont want to use something that has an "unknown" variable which in my mind will add complexity.
The clit comment is more of a joke
However, I know before fin, anything that would possibly shrink my dick would scare the hell out of me (still does). If that was on the warning lable (or the new update of persistent side effects after stopping the drug), trust me, I would have never used it. Why go from large to average, that would just suck. How much of a reduction are we talking about btw?

[5 alpha victim]

Ok, if that is the direction you want to go. I just dont want to use something that has an "unknown" variable which in my mind will add complexity.
The clit comment is more of a joke
However, I know before fin, anything that would possibly shrink my dick would scare the hell out of me (still does). If that was on the warning lable (or the new update of persistent side effects after stopping the drug), trust me, I would have never used it. Why go from large to average, that would just suck. How much of a reduction are we talking about btw?

Yea I here you. If I knew what I know now about how to get that extra boost in testosterone naturally I would have never have tried clomid or TRT.

I guess we can only learn from our experiences with what we take. It's hard to say for sure because I ignored it as much as I could but about a solid inch regardless of its state. Even before I got crazy about jumping on protocols to get better I had already recovered from the clomid sides/size reduction. With that said the clomid sides seem temporary.

As for now I'm almost done with PCT and I am deciding when I want to run another DHT prohormone cycle. Seeing that my first A300 cycle seems to have provided me with lasting benefits and seeing that I'm in the gym hard right now I may run another as early as Sept 1st. The lasting benefits in my case where not seen until I was well into PCT which I think is interesting.